Meeting minutes
internationalization subgroup
<Lisa> next item
Taking Agenda item 1 Lisa would like to share some tips to sharing - subject lines important, use of excel for surveys but will follow with others at the end of the meeting.
Review where we are with the comminity group - two meetings already but two from Japan and there were others from USA but not Europe as it was May bank holiday. discussed number of meetings a month and agendas possibly repeated if duplicate meetings - Rachael offered to put the meeting in the W3C format for surveys.
<kirkwood> very interesting input on scheduling. good learnings! nice to add as a note somewhere about findings?
<kirkwood> 6t months at one time then 6 months at another. interesting.
Still need to decide how the meetings will work out across the different time schedules. Want to be consistent with just one meeting once a month so everyone knows when it is as an option to the dupicate meetings at different times to related to the location best time. Or change meeting time every six months in order to include everyone. The
options were put on the survey and then there was also a mail out for the best times. So still working out logistics - any questions
Julie asked about whether the community group would be on Wednesday and this coga subgroup meeting will be on Thursdays.
<Lisa> next item
Lisa asked if there is another community meeting scheduled
15th May 9am EST - calendar invite sent out to group list. Reminded will be sent next Monday - will be first and third Wednesdays for the community group
<Lisa> next item
Jan will create a process to make comments... copy template tab and put name at the bottom and go through the patterns yourself - felt that it might get bogged down if the community group does it at different times with different perspectives - Jan feels there needs to be some orientation for those in the community. She has made an instruction doc
and will go through it in the next meeting with the community group.
John K commented that it might help to have an orientation section at the beginning of the call as people are coming into the discussion.
John felt if this is seen each time on the Agenda it might help to make people feel more comfortable with the tasks. Where the doc is, how to use it and what to look out for...
Jan feels it may be too early to jump into the patterns with the community group - may need more time to look at how the group will work but Julie or someone felt the was a need to understand the success criteria that will be in WCAG 3
Julie thought that the group could take a look at the concepts of making Content Usable ready for WCAG 3 and then what is actually being changed or added. Just as a way to show the group that there are twin goals
<kirkwood> +1 to working session
Lisa felt it might be good to have a working session with everyone - not people working independently and then go through Content Usable at the objective level and collect feedback. This gives a focus as to what people might be thinking about and also see what is missing that might have an impact in different countries and languages.
<kirkwood> +1 to Lisa’s point about WCAG3 LOE
<katy> +1 to working session
Lisa said regarding WCAG 3 - it can take up all your time and nothing get completed. The trouble is the timescale for publication and WCAG 3 will probably come out later than coga - so need to consider priorities and schedules - agreed that some stuff may have to come in but really need to see how the patterns feed in and how the outcomes and
guidance fits
Lisa felt that there is a lot of work to be done with the different testing and the 5 different languages and other things that will require consensus .
Julie felt that the bulk of the community's objections were related to clear language to fit with internationalisation to allow for publication.
Lisa asked where this was seen - the group wanted more such as the Personas to be more inclusive but did not feel it was the bulk of their objections.
<katy> +1 to Julie's suggestion to focus on clear language initially.. I think this would be a good way to orient members to Making Content Usable.
Jan felt that the issues of clear language is going to be difficult to resolve in the various languages esp Japanese and Thai - need to have more discussion how to make content generalisable enough across the languages
Julie felt that the tests were to see if the guidance was sufficiently broad to cover all the languages e.g. Japanese may no apply compared to other languages in some places... need to adjust to meet the need of all the languages. This may not be about plain language but more about grammar and syntax
Also adjustable line spacing and presentation of text
Jan suggested the need to list pattern proritisation for discussion
Julie agreed and mentioned that in WCAG 3 they come under text and wording would cover clear and understandable language. So may need to identify the patterns that cover this and what has been missed - look at it objectively
Lisa suggested need to local at issues related to the different languages and check what is missing - circulate around so checked in different locales
Jan whilst it is important to note that WCAG 3 is combining these issues we still need to separate them out and see where they might fit and how the issues can be addressed.
Jan asked about the order in ehich these issues should be addressed.
Lisa said that we already have placeholders where the localisation needs to occur.
<kirkwood> To meet US Fed regarding plain Language (local law: 9 languages) this may be useful, during my tenure we published this: https://
Need to get the edits in before July - put in placeholders then circulate the draft from the internationalisation perspective to international communities to gather feedback on what might have been missed. Also have space on the website where we can update tests and techniques.
Lisa suggesting producing a table that is guidance not normative.
Jan asked if we have any idea what the placeholders might be? suggested looking at high level of the patterns cover the objectives for all languages
<kirkwood> covered languages: Arabic, Bengali, Chinese, French, Haitian Creole, Korean, Russian, Spanish and Urdu
Ask the community group if they want to work at a high level or start to think about more important elements that might be missing for a particular language
Lisa suggested time scales for feedback - such as every three months
<julierawe> Not sure what list John is describing. It is not the 5 languages we agreed on with i18n.
The five structually different languages will be used as test base - and then saying where supported and may need more examples from other languages
<julierawe> We agreed to test in Arabic, Mandarin Chinese, English, Russian and Hindi.
Lisa went on to suggest a wiki page for other test cases as we have a wider review beyond the draft that will use the fice languages above
oops 6 language!!
delete last phrase!
Julie asked what is the community group going to look at first... maybe looking at the GitHub issues raised from the International group.
<kirkwood> sorry if confusion my comment above “language covered” was in reference to the above nyc.gov link provided. already implemented. not W3C languages.
Jan agreed this would help and Julie will provide a link to the Github doc
John K pointed out there is already a structural framework for international work by New York City - maybe build on it rather reworking it all. https://
<katy> To add to John's great resource, Inclusion Europe put this document together on easy language guidelines: https://
John said it was created with both international speakers and also needed local Spanish translations by speakers based in New York
Jan mentioned that the two last agenda items have been included in the discussion so asked where we should go next with the groups discussions.
Lisa suggested looking to the editor's notes and then posted to the broader group as this has been flagged with some issues
Jan agreed it could be an Agenda note for the next meeting.
<Lisa> we could dvlop a database for comunities to review in diffrent langages
<julierawe> Need to leave for next meeting, thank you!