Meeting minutes
[Discuss the time slot of this meeting]
[Maybe figure out the details by making the time slot later for an hour or two]
[By email later]
Action Items
https://
florian: you've been filing some requests directly and maybe we don't need this
… at the same time, I don't think the CSSWG has dealt with any of them yet
<r12a> w3c/
<gb> Issue 276 Font fallback should allow selection of a Nastaliq font (by r12a) [gap] [doc:arfa] [p:basic] [x:webkit] [x:blink] [x:gecko] [x:alreq] [x:css-fonts] [x:arab-ks] [doc:arab_ks] [x:arab-ug] [i:fonts] [l:pes] [l:ur] [l:ks]
<r12a> https://
fantasai: I think we took some WG resolutions to add a generic function
<r12a> w3c/
r12a: if you look at here ^
… I haven't heard anything from WebKit people
… it's one thing to have the generic function, but the issue is how you match the fonts to that generic function
… that's the next hurdle to get over
… even though we have the generic syntax in the spec
florian: I don't know if this is something that's gonna happen in spec
… it's not out of scope for you, but out of scope for the spec
… I've just read the description of Nastaliq and there's one sentence I don't understand
"It is important not to fall back to a naskh style for languages such as Urdu and Kashmiri."
florian: @@1
fantasai: I think you should file an issue on that
florian: will do
#53
<gb> Action 53 come up with a set of information CSS want the i18n group to provide support for generic font families (on frivoal, fantasai) due 2023-11-01
r12a: I raised another request about a distinction in Khmer
<gb> Issue 10036 [css-fonts] Add generic font family, Khmer Mul (by r12a) [css-fonts-4] [i18n-needs-resolution] [i18n-sealreq] [css-fonts-5]
r12a: I'm holding off on requesting others until I see what happens with this
<gb> Issue 10037 [css-fonts] Add generic font family, Blackletter (by Crissov) [css-fonts-4] [css-fonts-5]
r12a: I'd have to go back and read it again and think about it but my initial thought is that this is unlikely to be a good candidate
… because there aren't groups of people who can't read the text if it's not in blackletter
#35
<gb> Action 35 make the edits of CSS #5478 (on fantasai) due 2023-08-30
xfq: we discussed this issue last time
florian: @@2
… I couldn't find a way to tweak the definition of the values with a less aggressive selector
… so this provides the behaviour you want
r12a: my concern is that this should be the default behaviour and content author should not have to worry about it or remember that they have to
close #53
<gb> Closed issue #53
florian: if it's in the browser style sheet, then they don't have to do anything
r12a: it works in the browser, but might not work in EPUB documents or stuff like that
florian: an EPUB document is a browser from my point of view
… it's a specialized one
… but it's supposed to have the same user agent style sheet
… if it doesn't, that's not spec compliant
r12a: they have other things like print
… I don't think I've ever written a test or a WPT test that the browser has something in its default style
florian: it's perfectly valid
… and no reason you can't
… we can specify this normatively and we can test for it
#18
<gb> Action 18 Have informal explanation sessions about counter style translations with csswg members (on frivoal, fantasai) due 18 Jul 2023
florian: on one hand, if people are about to do this, we should try
… on the other hand, @@3
r12a: yeah, nobody is pushing for it anymore
florian: is the conclusion Korean isn't unique?
r12a: there's a whole bunch of other non-modern script that do this
florian: 'auto' does the right thing
… Korean is annoying because both behaviour are in modern usage
… we can't just go with the auto keyword
… because the auto keyword has to pick one
… for ancient language not in common use that's not the case because you won't get a random author typing stuff in your comment form
… I don't think that applies
… Facebook is not going to have a policy about their favorite type of line breaking in Khitan Small Script being different from the default from Unicode
r12a: but we should not discount that possibility
florian: @@4
r12a: but we could also have people who expect to break on word boundaries and not on character boundaries
florian: the website owner decide the typographic style is blah blah blah blah
… @@5
… 2 views, one is Korean is unique in this situation and we just add auto-version-2 for Korean
… @@6
… we should not do the wrong thing just because it's easy
… so if the right thing is to have something generic, then we should look into that
… it's a question of complexity of the syntax and flexibility of the engine underlying it
… and it's not inherently hard
… there are way harder things in the web platform
r12a: presumably the best way to test that is to put a proposal together
#11
<gb> Action 11 Triage all css properties to determine which are logical, physical, or na by default (on frivoal) due 18 Jul 2023
Info Share and Progress Reports
<florian> w3c/
florian: there's a ruby repo with the spec in it now
… rb and rtc
… the repo is set up
… the chairs of the WG is aware
… the rb feature is effectively ready to go to REC
… because Firefox and Kindle supposed to support it
… However, I don't know how to test Kindle
… Addison has an action item
… no browser other than Firefox supports tabular markup
… you can't do tabular markup without rb
… there is something in the HTML spec that nobody implements
… multi-level ruby using the rtc model
r12a: I thought if you have a piece of content and then rt rt then one of them gets put above and one of them gets put below
florian: the spec claims that but I believe nobody implements that
r12a: OK
florian: @@
… this spec basically corresponds to what Firefox does
… and it corresponds to what the CSS spec has been assuming HTML would eventually do
… I also made today a presentation for JEPA
… about ruby
… Japan Electronic Publishing Association
… in a publication context you might be able to say I achieved the book I wanted to achieve
… it works, but also it doesn't
… that's the point I've been trying to drive
… unless you get the right patterns of ruby markup, you can't get some features work
… I think the accessibility requirements from the government and the demands on textbooks have made people actually try to do things
r12a: if you can write down some of the things that don't work with real examples from people who are doing real publishing
… that would be terrific
florian: I was also hearing from someone other than Murata-san about the text to speech of electronic documents containing ruby
r12a: talking about ruby, I'd rather stay with CJKM for the time being
florian: let's first work on the markup pattern
r12a: that's good
florian: we should also start thinking a little about where this goes because the WG chartered until the end of June or so
r12a: let's discuss with plh first