W3C

– DRAFT –
Accessibility Conformance Testing Teleconference

18 January 2024

Attendees

Present
catherine, Daniel, Helen, kathy, thbrunet, ToddL, trevor, Wilco
Regrets
-
Chair
Wilco
Scribe
Helen, trevor

Meeting minutes

<kathy> agena+ Video element visual-only content is media alternative for text

ACT Standup

Wilco: I have done a lot of work and surveys

Catherine: I did the surveys too.

Daniel: Not much as reviewing the talk we submitted to the CT and planning

Trevor: Not too much - just small updates to the subjective applicability

Tom: I had PTO but did the surveys

Helen: Not much done

Kathy: I added some comments to the subjective PR

Todd: I did a huge audit that has taken up a lot of time so not able to cover much

Upcoming joint TF/CG meeting (February 8th?)

Wilco: I was talking with the lovely CG chairs with the first first public working draft of 1.1 being done, and want a joint meeting to discuss where we are and where are we going?
… On Feb 8th in place of this call but an hour later as we join the CG meeting instead
… I will get Kathy to remind you all!

Daniel: I will make it a joint meeting to share

Subjective applicability

Trevor: Shares screen and talks through the updates

https://github.com/w3c/wcag-act/pull/555/files

Trevor: I plan to run through Kathy's comments - line 410.
… oppositely - any opnions on changing this to conversely?

Wilco: I prefer the change

Daniel: I prefer the change

Trevor: Ok changed
… Kathy - can you explain the comments on line 412 - did my answer help?
… I am marking this as resolved after the chat agreeing it is target size that uses distance
… Line 419 - this adds the word "objective"

Wilco: I like it

Trevor: Added
… Line 448 - again you are wanting to make the language conform to other examples - by having the expectation there where not in others

Kathy: Yes - it deviated from the previous ones and it threw me slightly

Trevor: I could remove it from this example - the bottom one must have it, but this one - I am not sure

Kathy: I'm 50/50 too

Helen: Leave it in as better to not remove it

Wilco: I'm not sure

Trevor: I will have a think on it later

Daniel: I think for 412 we need some calculation in here to get the distance to stop it being subjective

Wilco: It was not meant to be a major example - and it is meant to be a non-HTML example, maybe we change it?

Trevor: I think we can vote now

<kathy> +1

+1

<ToddL> +1

<thbrunet> +1

<Wilco> +1

<catherine> +1

Wilco: +1 if you think it is ready or -1 if you want another run through

+1

RESOLUTION: Accept PR 555 with edits for first public working draft

Video element visual-only content has audio track alternative

Wilco: Going through the survey results sheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1OSkPFocXk4K3zYLnwS78WLsWO4PvE5yRcsauyefuIUI/edit?usp=sharing

https://html.spec.whatwg.org/#poster-frame

Wilco: we have some cosmetic and some composite rule tracking to complete - Kathy and I will work on it

Video element visual-only content has transcript

Wilco: Discussing the findings for https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1OSkPFocXk4K3zYLnwS78WLsWO4PvE5yRcsauyefuIUI/edit?usp=sharing

kathy: Update the description to mention being a cartoon or animated

wilco: Is this a nice to have or do we need to make this change.

trevor: Feel like its more nice to have

wilco: Not really an accessibility failure, wouldn't mind leaving it as is.

kathy: Would probably not fail but would make the suggestion.

wilco: I think we will just leave it for now, if AG wants updates we can do it then
… may also need to explore making the text alternatives clearer.

wilco: Issue with the transcript being both visible and in the accessibility tree. I think it being visible but not in the accessibility tree is a 1.3.1 failure

Link to issue: act-rules/act-rules.github.io#1815

wilco: CG removed the visibility condition in the issue.

kathy: They are asking if the transcript has to be visible. The CG is saying remove that the expectation has to be visible.

wilco: What I think should removed is that the transcript has to be in the accessibility tree, not that its visible

kathy: This rule is particulary specific about the transcript being visible
… If the video transcript isn't visible on the page, but is available through the accessibility tree. A screen reader user would be able to access the transcript even when its not visible that seems to meet the requirement.
… just like alt text for images that aren't usually visually presented. But it should still be okay.

tom: Put a related comment at the bottom of the survey, I would expect a lot of transcripts are going to load in dynamically

wilco: There is a bit about the transcript being in the page or linked, which was meant to handle accessing the transcript through some control
… i do agree that its a valid scenario to consider
… Kathy is saying that if the transcript is only available to assistive technologies and there is no button to make it visible, that it would still pass

kathy: Yes, and I think that is what issue 1815 is saying

helen: What about an audio description transcript

wilco: Having a hard time believing this would pass without the transcript being visible.

kathy: videos are a sequence of images and we don't require text alternative for image to be visible

tom: Transcript might not be the right word here since there is no audio.

wilco: Reluctant to make this call without checking in with AG. I get where its coming from, but curious if AG would agree

wilco: Kathy to create an issue with AG

Summary of resolutions

  1. Accept PR 555 with edits for first public working draft
Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by scribe.perl version 221 (Fri Jul 21 14:01:30 2023 UTC).

Diagnostics

Succeeded 2 times: s/working draft/first public working draft/g

Succeeded: s/transcipt/transcript/

Maybe present: Todd, Tom

All speakers: Catherine, Daniel, Helen, Kathy, Todd, Tom, Trevor, Wilco

Active on IRC: catherine, dmontalvo, Helen, kathy, thbrunet, ToddL, trevor, Wilco