Meeting minutes
<janina> On my way ...
Collaboration Tools Accessibility User Requirements.
jasonjgw: Thank you to Janina for changes and updates to Collaboration Tools Accessibility. I've made a few more fixes. Basically ready. No publicity but a working draft can be put other there.
janina: So it passes validator New and spellcheck?
jasonjgw: yes.
scott_h: I read through it and I think its in a great place. Great work everyone.
janina: We don't need anything formal or a concensus because its an update to working draft. We just need consensus here.
<jasonjgw> https://
jasonjgw: That is the URI
janina: Is this to the editor's draft or working draft?
jasonjgw: The URI is to the commit with all the changes on it.
janina: That is the editor's draft. We need a resolution.
DRAFT RESOLUTION: RQTF Update the Collaboration Tools Accessibility User Requirements with changes noted in URI
jasonjgw: Call for any objections to the proposed resolution.
janina: [crickets]
raja: I would like to add a little.
janina: Please go through and we can decide as a group whether to hold it for a week.
raja: There is a comment about coediting and how to synch up the co-modalities because of the timing issue.
janina: Are you suggesting an edit? You could give us a github issue with an edit. Do you think its worth holding this update for? This isn't finished and we could take it up after this.
raja: This is a working document?
Janina: Yes, its a work in progress. Every now and then we do an update so we have a known starting point. We hope the next set of issues will come from COGA.
Jason: If you document the issue over the next week or so we can get it in an editor's draft right away and then into the next working draft update.
raja: Alright.
RESOLUTION: RQTF Update the Collaboration Tools Accessibility User Requirements with changes noted in URI
jasonjgw: we have a resolution and an issue coming from Raja in the next week.
janina: Roy, can you publish?
Roy: Ok, I will check it over and publish.
jasonjgw: Next steps are to review the next set of issues from COGA and Raja. We will keep doing that and continue to move this to further publications.
janina: The more substantive the document can look by December 5th, the better for me. I will be talking about APA. Good place to get involved.
… we rely on WCAG to tell us about accessibility for today but APA looks at accessibility for tomorrow.
… engineering and horizontal review.
Accessibility of CAPTCHA.
janina: I have a report. As you know we are in touch with the media interest group. APA feels that is the most appropriate interface as it includes all types of group. That work is firing up again.
jasonjgw: This is captcha.
jasonjgw: Scott had raised this several weeks ago about the further development of the working draft. We still weren't clear about the direction that was being taken to move beyond captcha. I don't think we yet have sufficient clarity to shape a working draft. One way it may develop is that CAPTCHA may just disappear thanks to new authenticators. Thee are potentially methods that will allow checking for human interaction even with anonymous
usage. Assuming that it may disappear, what direction do we want to take as a taskforce?
scott_h: Where this is coming from. We do get asked about the status of this. It's been two years so people ask what is happening with it. I agree that there isn't much to add at this point. If that is the case, can we just publish what's there? It hasn't massively changed from the previous note. I think Janina's addition is a nice one. Can we just wrap it up as a note so its not sitting there as an aging draft?
jasonjgw: I am opening it up on what steps we can take?
janina: What did we call it? Do we have a number?
scott_h: I think we just kept the title the same and noted updated.
… I just get people asking about it. And increasingly lately.
janina: Want to validate it before we move it to note status.
… may want to say that we want to publish as we think CAPTCHA will be going away.
jasonjgw: May be a good way forward.
jasonjgw: There is a new paper that should be cited. I wouldn't insist but I think its a good idea.
… that is probably advisable. Also a paper that Lyonel cited on the mailing list. A couple small details to be worked out there.
… We could make updates and then request comments.
Janina: Sounds good but I don't want to get into a 2 year cycle here.
Janina: We are taking it up to clean it up and update it and put it out for comment.
jasonjgw: The references are important. I will look at them.
Rachael: Do you have a section on what a good replacement would look like since you are expecting transition?
janina: Yes but that is the section I'm most worried about.
jasonjgw: Google and Amazon are requiring the newer technology and this will increase over the next few months.
janina: We should point to that and that is the section that needs the most updating.
jasonjgw: Most items these days can use FIDO authentication.
… they are usually biometrically authenticated anyway. Its an alternative to two factor authentication.
… provides both posession and biometric identity.
… you must be using the same device that was used to registration or is linked and you must establish your biometric identity.
… still more work to do here.
,,,let's bring it back for discussion next week with changes. We'll have a better idea what's involved.
… anything further to be said about captcha?
janina: not here.
raja: I was just recently reading an article about how GQT refuses to cooperate with interpreting captchas. It has to bypass it.
… it makes. you think of image description that would also be bypassed. Something to keep in mind.
jasonjgw: Someone who has access to a multimodal AI modal can work through CAPTCHA quickly.
janina: they have been used that way.
raja: I will share it with you all
janina: Captchas get harder as they are used to train.
jasonjgw: moving along the. We are good on captcha
Miscellaneous topics.
raja: https://
MAUR 2
<janina> https://
janina: I am sharing a URI. We should be able to access it with member credentials.
… talking about activities and standardization. Want to meet their requirements by 2025.
… That should include the group that is updating the MAUR. They are into sharing metadata.
… talked about second screen concept, enhanced navigation support.
… promoted to them the looming FPWD on well known URIs to get to machine readable statements, human readable statements, common tasks.
… loved that web security pointed out that you don't need a disability
… all new to EU folks. Support for EN 301 broadcast requirements are already in the country's laws.
… we have a lot more thinking to do. Glad we are talking now.
jasonjgw: Sounds good.
janina: there is an accessibility framework in the HTDV standards group. We should look at that.
… Consumer Technology Association (CTA) which is US based are working on an accessibility personalization profiles. I am concerned about how much community participation in that group. I am trying to find funding support to do this.
… questions?
jasonjgw: How long is the document that needs urgent review?
janina: Not sure. Likely mostly metadata.
jasonjgw: Will likely be talked about in broader APA. When we update MAUR 2.0 we can make the impact. Disagreements around names.
… I assume there is something that allows users to pause the video to access text on the fly so I'm guessing that Apple's phrasing is correct.
jasonjgw: Not too many issues yet but it will probably will.
janina: We are trying to keep this in member space because of sensitivity of groups we are liaisoning with.
jasonjgw: Any other comments on media?
Diagram accessibility
jasonjgw: I attended the island science accessbility conference. There was a presentation on diagram accessibility which was interesting. It was working on using machine learning technologies to make diagrams accessible through tactile graphics and interactive text.
… not a lot of detail given. Early stage.
… I want to note it as a possible direction that diagram accessibility will be taking over the next few years.
janina: I'm intersted in non text models.
jasonjgw: They did not mention text descriptions. It isn't clear that its included in what they will deliver.
… Its not clear whether they will be using text or haptics.
janina: We had that interesting presentation on high fidelity graphics.
… we ask if the working group wants to take that on. Its not in the current charter.
jasonjgw: I think diagram accessibility for non visual are moving towards tech that gives direct access to the technical content through haptics, etc.
WCAG Coordination
Rachael: In process of guidelines review for which new ones might be needed in WCAG3
https://
Rachael: Out of this work I'm looking for what research topics might be suggested by this review
Rachael: Includes error notification best practices
Rachael: Would appreciate research review on errors
Rachael: Currently hav timeouts, but not why the current timeout might be adequate or inadequate
Rachael: Also concerned about overwarning and underwarning, where's the sweet spot and why
jasonjgw: Wonders whether wiki permissions could AGWG?