– DRAFT –
I18N ⇔ CSS

https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/d737b1d9-bb00-4b14-9507-0338465ee8ed/20230926T220000/

florian: to follow up from TPAC
… generic font families
… I think there's news here
… it seems that the CSSWG position has changed
… previously I think our understanding of the CSSWG position was that they weren't sure about adding new generic font families
… that seems to no longer to be the case
… in the latest meeting
… the group thinks that if some new generic font families are useful
… then we can add them
… just tell us which
… I think that's a good improvement
… new generic font families will be in a function
… it will be something like generic(nastaliq)
… so we have a path forward
… the next task is to compile a list of generic font families
… I think it would be helpful to identify actual font faces
… I suspect although the CSSWG has not resolved on that that maybe we want to add the new generic font family names directly in the spec
… @@
… here's a list of fonts, here's what license they have, here's where we can find them
… maybe they're free, maybe they're not
… the article written by Richard
… was this meant to be the list of the most important ones to have?
… or do we have a longer list?
… basically can we create an action item for somebody to create that list?

https://w3c.github.io/i18n-drafts/articles/typography/fontstyles.en.html

xfq: @@

florian: I think it would be good to keep this document
… but we need to create a list of we want these to exist

Status of sideways-lr and sideways-rl in Writing Modes

florian: the status of spec is stable
… Firefox implements it
… nobody else
… I'm not aware of anything new
… it's really an implementation question
… I'm also interested if any language needs this
… or it's just a layout feature
… if you find a particular language that needs this
… rather than just being a layout feature
… please let me know

Cutting Note (aka Warichu in Japanese) is not supported

florian: it's a combination of a technical question and a lobbying question
… I'm not aware of implementer interest, and not aware of funding for this area
… maybe next time we have the CSSWG F2F this could be a topic
… do you know some browser engine is interested in this?

xfq: not that i'm aware of but i do know some publishers interested

florian: do we have an analysis of what's missing to make this work?
… because to some degree @@
… one interesting part of the challenge is parens
… that problem might be shared with math
… I wonder if you have contacts in the math related working group
… we could ask them not so much in terms of markup because i don't think we're trying to share mark with mathml
… but in terms of layout

[Discuss the example in w3c/clreq#109 (comment) ]

florian: I hand't paid attention to line breaking inside Warichu so far
… that's interesteing

<atsushi> https://w3c.github.io/jlreq/#handling_an_inline_cutting_note_when_it_straddles_two_kihonhanmen_lines

florian: I guess from a CSSWG point of view the point is not to solve it just for CJ
… is this a CJ only thing
… or do you know something similar that happens in other languages?
… is it always 2 lines
… or is it sometimes 3 or more?

atsushi: if we divide it into 3 or four lines
… it's too small
… Warichu contains Kanji

florian: basically we need to control the font size

<atsushi> https://w3c.github.io/jlreq/#h-note-135

florian: we need to be able to control how many lines
… we need to be able to get correct wrapping
… we need to be able to put parens around it
… I don't know if it should be automatic or not in terms of font size and line gap
… this example from jlreq is saying that the Chinese example shared eailer is not recommended style according to jlreq

xfq: semantically it is the same

Status of "characters to skip for emphasis marks"

w3c/csswg-drafts#839

<florian> https://drafts.csswg.org/css-text-decor-3/#text-emphasis-style-property

However, emphasis marks are not drawn for:
...

florian: so for now we have criteria like this but it would be probably better if Unicode could maintain this
… it's possible that fantasai did
… I'll send her an email

florian: what's in the CSS spec now isn't wrong, at least not obviously
… but it's kind of tricky to maintain this kind of thing
… it would be good if Unicode couuld maintain that

ACTION: florian to make the CSSWG aware of Warichu

<gb> Created action #47

AOB

florian: I have one more small topic
… during TPAC I have had some conversations with Google who are working to prioritize what they should work on in the medium to long term re CJK typographic features, if you have important issues please let me know
… speaking of the oblique stuff one thing which we did not talk about
… but eventually we need to get back to is that it's actually more complicated than that
… like writing mode
… it would be good to find some companies who think it's important to get them to join the CSSWG to push for it
… because i think CSSWG overall is receptive to that kind of topic
… because nobody's driving this
… like media company related to video subtitles
… it's not common in books so publishers don't care
… but in subtitles i believe it is
… it would be good if sombody who cares and preferably several
… I know we've had some conversations about this in the past
… but that was a long time ago and nothing has happended since so i think we need active participation

atsushi: maybe MEIG
… maybe better to reach out to movie companies

florian: the reason why I'm raising this because we've started taling again about italic and oblique and slanted text
… I think it would be really good while we're having this conversation the CSSWG has enough people who remember that
… maybe reachout to MEIG and Chinese and Japanese mailing lists