Meeting minutes
Introductions
[[Short intros from people]]
<nigel> Nigel Megitt, BBC, co-Chair TTWG, chair ADCG
S/Dainel/Daniel/
<AWK> +AWK
<kevin> Slides
Shawn: Work on strategic plan
… We want to do better at defining what are priorities are, in agreement with the community
… We have a draft: W3C WAI Mission and Vision. It extends from the W3C Mission and Vision
… We encourage members to help, potentially looks for external funders, etc
… We are open to comments on GitHub or wherever that's comfortable for you
<kevin> Priority discussion topics
Shawn: Questions, comments?
Wilco: I am noticing now that a lot of WAI is focused in guidelines and adding features to mostly HTML for developers to make things accessible
… I am missing a third path: to figure out how to make the Web as-is more accessible by default. Browsers to be more robust when things are not built accessible
Kevin: Where is the best place to solve the problem? How can we encourage to solve it in the right place?
Shawn: What are some quick wins we could do?
… Appreciate the high-level comment, but would try to look for more specifics
Wilco: Focus has always been problematic, how browsers can handle focus indicators properly
Lionel: Well-known URLs, that's something we are working on in APA, for problem reporting
Shadi: Desktop and then mobile apps are added. Aer you considering other interfaces, such as voice, close systems, and others? TVs, coffee machines, kiosks ...
<Wilco> +1
<ben_tillyer> +1
<kevin> +1
Shawn: We need to improve scope definition. I encourage you to put thoughts in there to help with wording
John: Prompt-based interfaces may make the Web go away as we know it. Maybe we want to explore that
Shawn: We need to pay attention to current things and also be aware of what is coming up
… There is currently an open issue
Mitch: How far beyond the Web should we go? I just put a comment on issue 4
… There are other standards for example in Europe that are doing that. Is it better to let them be the de facto standards on that?
… I would propose to do a little bit about of hardware, things that are relevant but less thorough
High Level Objectives
Shadi: It feels the internationalisation aspect does snot fit well at the top
… Also the word "facilitate" sounds a bit weak
… First we should make sure to communicate that we have the core standards and then expand on where they can be used
Shawn: Noted
GitHub Discussions
Shawn: Feel free if you want to upvote a specific discussion
Improving Accessibility Guidance
MattK: In APG we want to do more consolidation of resources. For example, incorporating "Using ARIA".
… One of the challenges for people is that there are different places to go for guidance.
… Others want APG to talk about HTML in addition to ARIA
… I think it would be useful to talk about boundaries to support beyond WCAG
… One thing is what the standards require and the other is how to build accessibly
Shawn: Yes, that is a known issue
… Same happens with Tutorials
MattK: We put in the roadmap that we possibly could include the tutorials in APG but that seems like a huge project
… Everything here requires a team to work on it
… If we look at all the resources, it seems we lack a scoping strategy that helps us optimize our overall productivity
Kevin: Did you see something around HTML that could fit into techniques? Still, I would agree that is a lot of work involved
MattK: Now APG is organised in a different way, I think both approaches are important
… I think it could be possible, I don't have a clear vision as of now
<shawn> https://
Shadi: Strong yes to the first question on the discussion. Also yes to others, but not so strong.
… Having the Understanding and Techniques on the WAI website was a huge first step, there are still things we can do to improve cohesion.
Shawn: We are trying to prioritize
Shawn: We have started a project to rearchitect the WAI website
… That was developed in 2017 so we want to update it
S/That was/It was/
Andrew: We should prioritize WCAG3? Yes. WCAG2 is a success but just a few websites can comply
S/We should/Should we?
… The web has become more accessible because of WCAG. But we still need to improve how accessibility feels around the websites, and how developers can make things accessible
… People are afraid that WCAG3 is yet again a bunch of SCs in addition to the previous ones in WCAG2.2
… I think AI and accessibility is still too far. We should focus on WCAG work
<AWK> s/bunch of PCs/bunch of SCs
Mostel: Agree with Andrew's comments. I think there is an opportunity to agree with other groups and improve the conformance model
… Especially throughout the product development lifecycle, not just at the latest phases
Wilco: The lack of an expected timeline for WCAG3 worries me. There are so many things to get done
<AWK> +1 to Wilco
Wilco: We could work for years and years but it would be good to have something done
Kevin: I think supplemental guidance is what you are referring to, Wilco
Wilco: I would see that raised to the level of updating the conformance model,
… WCAG2 will still be around
Shawn: Supplemental guidance is separate from WCAG, it's in addition to WCAG
<Zakim> chaals, you wanted to try and tie together what Matt and Shadi said a bit...
Chaals: It is important to figure out the scope of work, how many resources this is going to take
… It would be interesting to think what accessibility wold require in 3 years time for instance
… What do we think we could, and should do, drawing on the material developed in ATAG about workflows, in relation to AI? What do we say about user agents?
… We may have a different conversation about these things now
… We should put effort into developing the supplemental guidance because that gives ideas on how to move forward
… If we discover there are some spare cycles somewhere, then we can decide to use them on e.g. Math and low vision and try to extrapolate from that material to raise up some of that to the level of WCAG-type standards
<Zakim> shawn, you wanted to react to chaals
Shawn: A vision idea was to cover things for low vision that were not in WCAG in the supplemental guidance
Mitch: I want to highlight authoring tools accessibility. This is a really important. Some the Web is built by non-expert authors. It needs to be possible for them to create accessible content
Kevin: Procurement is one of those things that is not clear where we could best solve, but there are things we can do
Jaunita: We should work with the HTML and CSS working groups to support more functionality natively
<ben_tillyer> +1 to Juanita's point
John: I think we should get started with AI. I don't think we can say we are OK if we wait that much
<ben_tillyer> DFazio gave a +1
<Zakim> shawn, you wanted to note OPen UI work
Shawn: There is an OpenUI Community Group in W3C
<AvneeshSingh> continuous monitoring and evaluating impact of AI is important
MattK: People in ARIA regularly check in with the OpenUI CG. They try to fill the gaps that we've talking about
MattK: What's your decision process? What are next steps for things we cannot resolve now?
Shawn: We are iterating on it, we opened the discussion on GitHub, hopefully omore people will provide more input in the first month AvneeshSingh (~chatzilla@7e4e2622.public.cloak) left IRC ("ChatZilla 0.9.92-rdmsoft [XULRunner 35.0.1/20150122214805]")
… I feel we still need more input. We may need to have a few half-day workshops to continue to work with the community
… Hopefully we will have something by the end of the year
MattK: Are GitHub discussions intended to be used in the process?
Shawn: Yes, through the whole process for at least a month
… Have a look at what is already there before adding new ones shadi +1 to assigning work to chaals
Kevin: I'd like to start getting into practical questions
… Creating projects then that can be picked up by the appropriate groups at the appropriate time
… Then develop a joint strategy with all the information we have gathered from these discussions
<chaals> +1 to Kevin (and yay to having luggage)
Shawn: Thanks everybody for your input. Pleas reach out to us, we need more input and discussions
<chaals> [please don't discuss this forever though...]
<Charles> Charles: chaals i.e. there's value in setting a direction and starting to walk along the path. If we discover then that it's not quite right, we can patch it and see if that means it was nearly right or if we need to start over...