W3C

– DRAFT –
ARIA Authoring Practices Task Force

11 July 2023

Attendees

Present
Bryan_Garaventa, CurtBellew, howard-e, JemmaKu, JonGunderson, jugglinmike, Matt_King
Regrets
-
Chair
Matt
Scribe
jugglinmike

Meeting minutes

Review agend and next meeting date

<Matt_King> View agenda at https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/wiki/July-11%2C-2023-Agenda

<Matt_King> No meeting July 18.

<Matt_King> Next meeting July 25.

<Matt_King> rrsagent , make minutes

jugglinmike: Alex_Flenniken from Bocoup won't be available for review for the foreseeable future

Matt_King: We'll miss him!

Status of Site Updates

Matt_King: I don't think any of the things listed in the agenda are pressing updates

Matt_King: Does anyone object to us waiting for a larger collection before we push them out to the production site?

Jem: When will we consider publishing again?

Matt_King: We have a few patches which are pretty close. I think if we could land the "ListBox" fix, then we should definitely publish a new version

Matt_King: I don't mind waiting until August for that't know if that will necessarily be in July, but I don

Pull request reviews

Feed Example: Convert images to inline SVG

github: w3c/aria-practices#2729

Matt_King: James provided some good feedback to the author, but James is now on vacation. We would like someone to look at this, in particular, high-contrast mode

Jem: I reviewed it just now, but I didn't review for high-contrast mode

jongund: I can look at high-contrast mode

Matt_King: We'd ask Shirisha and Alyssa to review, previously

Jem: I've assigned you as a review, jongund

Listbox Examples: Update scrolling of listbox item with focus into view when page is magnified

github: w3c/aria-practices#2622

Matt_King: This is jongund's pull request. jugglinmike had provided performed a review and requested some changes. jongund have you had a chance to respond, yet?

Matt_King: We should include a test for scrolling this into view, and we should probably perform an audit for other patterns which use active descendant

jongund: I can try to write a test for this, but it will probably take me a few weeks. I'm going to be on vacation

Matt_King: Maybe we should raise a separate issue for developing regression tests for scrolling behavior

Matt_King: And then land this without regression tests

Jem: I agree

<Jem> ava info in the apg wiki: https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/wiki/Regression-Tests-for-APG-Example-Pages#ava

Matt_King: Valerie Young might have some feedback for how to write those regression tests because she developed this testing framework

Matt_King: jongund, could you address jugglinmike's other feedback?

jongund: Sure

Matt_King: It'd be great if we could land this one in the next week or so. Then, I would love to push the changes out to production

Landmark Example Pages: remove background colours that cause color contrast failures

github: w3c/aria-practices#2738

Matt_King: This is a small fix. I think we just need a visual review

Jem: I can do that. I'll assign myself

Matt_King: Thanks!

Add AT Support tables for modal dialog, 1 slider, and navigation menu button

github: w3c/aria-practices#2736

Matt_King: I'm not going to merge this until I receive a "go ahead" from Vispero, and I'm meeting with them tomorrow

Jem: I approved it yesterday

Reposition AT support tables higher on the page

github: w3c/aria-practices#2737

Jem: I approved this

Matt_King: Then I'll merge it

Running tests on macOS

Matt_King: I don't know if anyone can run all the test successfully locally, and I don't know if we have a clear path forward for how it can be fixed

Matt_King: If that's correct, then I think we should probably change our readme (at least temporarily) to at least acknowledge this and not expect contributors to run the tests locally and just run them in CI

Matt_King: As discussed recently, this isn't the greatest solution for new contributors, but it's better than where we are now (i.e. misleading documentation)

howard-e: That all sounds right to me. I haven't had a chance to investigate further myself, but I know it's related to a regression to how Node.js version 17 defines "localhost"

howard-e: This leads me to think that some rewrite of the geckodriver file might be needed. But it's too early to say

Matt_King: The only reason we're able to run the tests in CI is because you pinned the CI system to Node.js 16, right?

howard-e: That's right. We can't do that for contributors unless we instruct them on how to use a tool like nvm

howard-e: This problem does not effect Windows; only some Unix environments

howard-e: We know that includes Ubuntu (because that's what the CI uses) and macOS (because that's what I use)

Matt_King: Well, I definitely have timeouts on my Windows machine

Matt_King: I think the logical next step for this issue is to change the readme. Right now, the readme just encourages people to run tests locally. I think we can include a link to the relevant Node.js issue

Matt_King: This was quite a diversion/rabbit-hole for Paul, and I don't want any other new contributors to "fall into" it

New contributing page

github: w3c/aria-practices#2734

Matt_King: I have this patch in draft. The agenda has a link to the preview

Matt_King: I'm looking for someone else to take a look and giving feedback on whether it includes everything we want

jongund: I can take a look

Matt_King: This was in response to an issue that jongund raised

Matt_King: I copied content from the home page) and cleaned it up a little bit (making it more appropriate for this kind of page

Matt_King: Ideally, it would be the kind of page that points readers to other pages that are helpful when they're getting started

Jem: I was thinking about adding content about "why people should contribute" because right now, it's mostly about the mechanical aspects of contribution

Matt_King: Well, the top of the page has a very brief statement along those lines

Matt_King: If we wanted more and if we wanted to stay true to this style of document, I think that opening statement could include a link--something like "learn more about why contributing to the APG is important..."

Matt_King: So there's a draft pull request; feel free to add commits. I'm happy to co-author content

Is treegrid Example code able to support nested selects

github: w3c/aria-practices#2741

Matt_King: Stephanie_Leary was trying to use the treeview pattern to make a treeview that included a select in a cell

Matt_King: I replied that adding a select, that could interfere with the navigation in the treeview

Matt_King: I looked around in the code, and I tried to understand the impact of the change on the code. I believe that it will only have negative consequences--not positive

Matt_King: I wrote something up to that effect in my reply, but I would like it if someone could actually test it

Matt_King: I'm pretty sure that the TreeGrid code is very purpose-built for the kind of tree grid we are exemplifying in APG. I don't think it's quite robust enough to support this kind of extension

jongund: I can take a look

Matt_King: You've already signed up for a bunch of things in this meeting; that's very generous!

New Issue Action Planning

Listbox pattern: aria-multiselectable conflicts with the aria spec

github: w3c/aria-practices#2746

Bryan_Garaventa: I responded to this one

Matt_King: Maybe we actually need to adjust the ARIA spec

Matt_King: Your comment here is spot-on, Bryan_Garaventa. It should work, just in terms of the way it maps

Matt_King: The way the ARIA spec language is written for ARIA multiselectable, it doesn't account for the possibility of using ARIA checked to represent the "selected" state. The spec language is inconsistent with itself: there's language about using "checked" in multiselects

<Jem> +1

Matt_King: So in summary, this is not an APG issue. It's actually an ARIA issue

Jem: I'll add the label "not for practices"

Matt_King: and I'll add a comment to this effect

Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by scribe.perl version 210 (Wed Jan 11 19:21:32 2023 UTC).

Diagnostics

Succeeded: s/don/don't mind waiting until August for that/

Succeeded: s/page/page)/

Maybe present: Jem, jongund

All speakers: Bryan_Garaventa, howard-e, Jem, jongund, jugglinmike, Matt_King

Active on IRC: CurtBellew, howard-e, Jem, jugglinmike, Matt_King