IRC log of aria-apg on 2023-06-20

Timestamps are in UTC.

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logging to https://www.w3.org/2023/06/20-aria-apg-irc
17:59:47 [Zakim]
RRSAgent, make logs Public
17:59:48 [Zakim]
please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), Matt_King
17:59:48 [jugglinmike]
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18:00:01 [Matt_King]
MEETING: ARIA Authoring Practices Task Force
18:00:07 [Matt_King]
CHAIR: Matt King
18:00:13 [Matt_King]
present+
18:00:19 [Matt_King]
rrsagent, make minutes
18:00:20 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/06/20-aria-apg-minutes.html Matt_King
18:06:05 [jugglinmike]
present+
18:06:27 [CurtBellew]
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18:08:03 [jugglinmike]
scribe+ jugglinmike
18:10:26 [jugglinmike]
Topic: Status of Coming Site Updates
18:11:07 [jugglinmike]
jugglinmike: The latest deploy is completed
18:11:20 [jugglinmike]
Matt_King: I will validate the issues listed here in the agenda
18:12:27 [andrea_cardona]
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18:13:00 [jugglinmike]
jugglinmike: The link to the new "Landmarks" pattern is broken; it returns a 404/"Document not found error"
18:14:07 [jugglinmike]
jugglinmike: We've only just now identified this, and we're currently investigating why it occurred in order to understand how to fix it and prevent similar errors in the future
18:14:42 [jugglinmike]
Topic: Pull request reviews
18:14:52 [siri]
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18:15:13 [jugglinmike]
Matt_King: I've merged "PR 2724: Example Pages: Change Javascript to JavaScript in h2 elements by mcking65" https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/2724
18:15:34 [jugglinmike]
Subtopic: Skipto menu on all pages: Update skipto.js script to version 5.1.6
18:15:39 [jugglinmike]
github: https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/2680
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18:16:30 [jugglinmike]
Matt_King: This was awaiting review
18:16:49 [CurtBellew]
present+
18:17:10 [daniel-montalvo]
present+ Daniel
18:17:30 [jugglinmike]
Matt_King: ariellalgilmore has approved the visual appearance. That's what I was looking for. Maybe this is ready to go
18:17:48 [jugglinmike]
subtopic: Checkbox Example (Mixed-State): Toggle on keyup to prevent continuous toggling by sivakusayan · Pull Request #2722 · w3c/aria-practices
18:17:55 [jugglinmike]
github: https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/2722
18:18:18 [jugglinmike]
Matt_King: It seems like someone should have been assigned to review the code
18:18:49 [jugglinmike]
andrea_cardona: I can review it
18:18:55 [jugglinmike]
Matt_King: Awesome; I'll assign you right now
18:21:38 [jugglinmike]
subtopic: PR 2723: Select-only Combobox Example: Fix scroll event listener bug by ariellalgilmore
18:21:42 [jugglinmike]
github: https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/2723
18:21:54 [jugglinmike]
Matt_King: This is ready for review; did we assign a reviewer last week?
18:22:26 [jugglinmike]
andrea_cardona: We asked Valerie to review, and she said that she could
18:23:30 [jugglinmike]
Matt_King: It's awesome to see spectranaut back in APG stuff
18:26:17 [jugglinmike]
subtopic: Feed Display Example Broken Star Images
18:26:21 [jugglinmike]
github: https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/2628
18:27:05 [jugglinmike]
Matt_King: Paul Brown (GitHub handle "frozenzia") has volunteered to take this up, but they're having trouble running the tests on their Mac
18:27:38 [jugglinmike]
andrea_cardona: I develop on a Mac. I can try to run these tests and comment on this issue about my experience
18:45:08 [jugglinmike]
Matt_King: It appears as though there might be some documentation missing for folks who want to run the tests on Mac. The "command" versus "control" thing may be a red herring
18:46:15 [jugglinmike]
jugglinmike: I can bring this to Carmen and see that someone from Bocoup takes a look at this alongside andrea_cardona
18:46:48 [CurtBellew]
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18:46:49 [jugglinmike]
Topic: New Issue Action Planning
18:47:03 [jugglinmike]
Subtopic: ARIA & Progressive Enhancement
18:47:10 [jugglinmike]
github: https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/2727
18:48:34 [jugglinmike]
Matt_King: Most of the ARIA we add in APG is added dynamically
18:48:47 [siri]
Can you add grid for layout issue for our next APG discussion. I need to dropout now
18:59:25 [jugglinmike]
jugglinmike: I'm thinking about the Treeview pattern. Right now, if the user views the example with JavaScript disabled, it appears as a broken treeview. Wouldn't it be better to render that content as a list in that case?
19:01:51 [jugglinmike]
jugglinmike: It might be better to describe this topic with the term "graceful degradation" rather than "progressive enhancement" because we don't necessarily believe the patterns in APG are "enhancements"
19:02:53 [jugglinmike]
Matt_King: I agree that the "graceful degradation" is preferable, but I have more fundamental questions about this. I don't know how realistic it is for screen reader users to browse the web with JavaScript disabled
19:04:40 [jugglinmike]
Matt_King: I don't personally browse with JavaScript disabled, so I may be biased, but we haven't typically considered it as a use case
19:07:34 [jugglinmike]
jugglinmike: It sounds like what we're saying is: graceful degradation generally takes additional effort, so we would want evidence that the practice would benefit real end-users before making a recommendation in APG...
19:08:09 [jugglinmike]
jugglinmike: ...and that we currently don't have evidence that screen reader users browse the web with JavaScript disabled.
19:09:11 [jugglinmike]
Matt_King: That sounds right to me. However, this person is asking whether it is okay to make their implementations of the patterns degrade gracefully
19:09:57 [jugglinmike]
Matt_King: And to that specific question, I think that yes, it is certainly okay (because that practice does not interfere with the behavior as outlined in APG)
19:10:30 [jugglinmike]
Zakim, end the meeting
19:10:30 [Zakim]
As of this point the attendees have been Matt_King, jugglinmike, CurtBellew, Daniel
19:10:33 [Zakim]
RRSAgent, please draft minutes
19:10:34 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/06/20-aria-apg-minutes.html Zakim
19:10:40 [Zakim]
I am happy to have been of service, jugglinmike; please remember to excuse RRSAgent. Goodbye
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