scribe+

ACT Standup

Wilco: Been going through open pull requests. Working on issues for WCAG working group, will update later.

Catherine: Working on annual reviews, just a couple left.

Tom: Not much of note today. Have a PR to review today

Daniel: Finally merged one, opened an issue based on Github guidance. Add template for issues.

Chris: Working on ACT implementation for Oracle. Fully tested three rules, partially tested two more. Reviewed the survey for heading on empty.

Suji: Finished reviews.

Tom: Got one PR merged

Update from AGWG

Wilco: Had a conversation with the chairs of the WCAG WG to catch everyone up.
... Nov last year had a review from the AG WG. Sent back 4 of the 8 we asked them to approve with feedback I didn't think we could resolve.
... Things fundamentally against the rules format - like not being atomic, not passing SC, etc.
... I met with AG chairs last week about what to do about it. Plan we've come up with is that I'll open issues with this feedback and then will right a response on behalf of the TF I'll draft a response and bring it to the ask force and then we'll review and see if we all agree that it's the right way to respond to those comments. If the TF is in agreement on how to address those issues (hoping not address) we can bring that back t

o the working group chairs and they'll confirm they agree and tell the working groups that they're okay.

scribe: That'll be an upcoming agenda item.

Update on CG/TF communication

Wilco: Another short update. Last week communication difficulties with community group. Invited CG chairs to join us on the 29th to discuss and see if we can improve our processes.
... two weeks because Kathy's out.

Daniel: Question - last week we talked about the process document, ruleset review, is that something we need to set up as a proposal for CG chairs beforehand, or maybe discuss on the 29th with them

Wilco: I'd rather hear from them directly what their concerns are and then come up with a proposal based on that.
... If there are concrete things, we can look at that beforehand.

Daniel: Makes sense

Heading has non-empty accessible name

Wilco: Also from last week. Someone may need us to catch up on this.

Chris: Looked at the survey and looking at the TF conclusions. Based on the action items, based on that context, didn't see any particular action items that we agreed on as a group. It wasn't clear what to do with the actual survey results.
... That was one, and as of last week, at the end of the call, didn't get a chance to really go through it.

Wilco: I think the main bit was whether or not it fails WCAG as an empty heading. Kathy noted Pass 3 as an issue.

Chris: So going through, would I make PRs for each individual issue, or collect them as one.

Wilco: I think one PR is fine. Unless you prefer separate PRs.
... I don't think these are big changes so fine to group them together.
... I think for this particular comment from Kathy we can just align the names for Pass 3.
... As far as does it fail WCAG - thinking about making it secondary so that you can fail, but don't have to.

Chris: It's more of a warning for me on how I read it.

Wilco: There are certain ATs that if you use space characters, they won't ignore it, but it's kind of inconsistent. It's dependent on which AT you use.

Tom: I'd personally rather err on the side of flagging bad code than missing something that might affect a user experience

Chris: We often have it in the conversation of what you should be doing, but often should be a warning.

Catherine: I think it falls under 1.3.1

Suji: We consider it a failure as well - shouldnt' have empty headings.

Wilco: Will add action to set 1.3.1 as a secondary requirement. Accessibility Support section seems okay with notes about AT support.

Chris: On the last sentence of first bullet in Accessibility Support, would it be beneficial to add some reference about the secondary requirement.

Wilco: I think it reads fine.
... Kathy comment - Should this apply to visible headings only?
... There was a discussion about whether 1.3.1 should apply to hidden content, and they said yes.

Tom: You mean offscreen, right?

Wilco: Yes.
... Specifically discussion was about tables.

Chris: To Kathy's point, something offscreen but an empty heading

Wilco: yes.
... Q7, I think we should remove that phrase about the accessible name

Daniel: Do you have issues open on that phrase?

Wilco: No, but not a bad idea to open an issue with them to explicitly indicate what is/isn't whitespace
... I think fail 6-8 are fine, we can keep them.
... Inapplicable 1 seems unnecessary

Check-in on annual reviews

Wilco: Will look at the ones Chris and Suji worked on. Quite a few have change noets
... First one object element.
... Git 2053 issue opened.
... Due to wrong MIME type for video.
... That's a server issue that I don't have control over. Now it no longer matches the applicability of the rule. Daniel - how do we get w3c to change the MIME type?

<Wilco> https://github.com/act-rules/act-rules.github.io/issues/2053

Daniel: I'll discuss with the systems team

Wilco: I'll assign issue to Daniel.
... I think it's okay to leave the rule itself alone, so if you're okay. I'll mark it done.

Chris: I'm okay with that.

Wilco: Next is bc659a Meta
... Issue 2039.
... Doesn't influence the outcome of the rule, being worked on.
... Next is 6cfa84. Issues 1824, 1507
... I think we covered 1824 and forgot to close the issue.

Tom: I know the situation of focus sentinels jumping focus was handled before I worked on it.

Wilco: Not sure when it was fixed, but 1824 was fixed.
... 1507 - regarding merging two rules. I'm not sure we should actually still do that.
... aria-hidden is definitely a problem. But, most browsers are ignoring presentational children, so not sure they're equivalent. The second might go away, so I don't think we should merge.
... Will leave a comment that I think we should close it as won't fix and will leave that up to Jean-Ives
... Next is 307n5z. Same issue 1507.
... Next is de46e4. Comment from Kathy that examples should have valid language.
... Good point that the pass examples should have a lang on the html element.
... Should we just remove the html and body elements out since there's no title either?
... Looks like just the ones that already have lang tags still need html elements, but the others can likely remove them.
... Other issues - 2063 complicated.
... Some issue distinguishing between display:none content and aria-hidden or offscreen content. May need some elaboration in the applicability.
... Also need to flush out issue between DOM content and CSS injected content

This is scribe.perl Revision VERSION of 2020-12-31
Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/

Guessing input format: Irssi_ISO8601_Log_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Default Present: ChrisLoiselle, Daniel, thbrunet, suji, Wilco, Catherine
Present: ChrisLoiselle, Daniel, thbrunet, suji, Wilco, Catherine
No ScribeNick specified.  Guessing ScribeNick: thbrunet
Inferring Scribes: thbrunet

WARNING: No meeting chair found!
You should specify the meeting chair like this:
<dbooth> Chair: dbooth


WARNING: No date found!  Assuming today.  (Hint: Specify
the W3C IRC log URL, and the date will be determined from that.)
Or specify the date like this:
<dbooth> Date: 12 Sep 2002

People with action items: 

WARNING: IRC log location not specified!  (You can ignore this 
warning if you do not want the generated minutes to contain 
a link to the original IRC log.)