W3C

Accessibility Conformance Testing Teleconference

04 May 2023

Attendees

Present
catherine, Helen, kathy, Suji, thbrunet, trevor, Wilco
Regrets
-
Chair
Wilco
Scribe
Helen

Meeting minutes

ACT Standup

Wilco: working on tooling for implementation pages, and got stuck on some bits but almost done on secondary requirements
… and long list completed

Catherine: A light week for me

Kathy: I attended the CG meeting last week where we talked about label in name and someone is working on an algorithm on it, and I am working ont he GitHub instructions

<ChrisLoiselle> act-rules/act-rules.github.io#2050

Chris: Working on a manual rule with lots of feedback from Jean-Yves and working with Oracle to become an implementer, and hope to complete by end of May

Wilco: If you find any issues, please log an issue

Tom: Not done as much as I would like but working on the iFrame item before starting on ARIA

Trevor: I made a couple of example steps and made progress on my PRs
… flipped the non-essential text change rule - Wilco can you take a look?

<trevor> https://github.com/act-rules/act-rules.github.io/pull/2036/

<trevor> act-rules/act-rules.github.io#1916

Trevor: please review these

<thbrunet> Iframe PR that should be ready for another round of reviews later today - act-rules/act-rules.github.io#2034

Helen: Made an update on my rule: act-rules/act-rules.github.io#2022 - will work on my media PRs next week - apologies for next week

Suji: I haven't done much but I have a question - why are surveys active if past their due date?

Kathy: They stay active until we have reviewed them - we should update that?

Wilco: Maybe "Active" change it to "latest"

Annual rule review

Wilco: We try to review those not reviewed in the past year to see if they are valid, so time to check them

<ChrisLoiselle> Happy to review and do whatever moves us forward

Wilco: We also have several with "updates needed" that seem stuck, and we have different preferences in the team of people who like to review than amend

Suji: I would be up for working with someone

Catherine: Me too

Chris: I am happy to help

Wilco: I will set up a call to walk you through it

<ChrisLoiselle> works fo rme

Kathy: Me too on the review side

How to use GitHub for ACT

<kathy> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1VF5LB09CDwtJ9iRFGJuYL4i8atqvBpA8JnYuGMWfcqo/edit#heading=h.161g9adyo3hv

Kathy: Shows her screen - we are trying to develop helpful guidance on how to use GitHub to help new people that might not understand it as not straight forward
… we are listing topics and comments to help build these out
… We are also using other information that other groups have created to help us out
… Do we want videos or are written instructions ok?
… shows the work in progress with steps and screenshots
… can people read through this and add comments or any ideas or changes required?

<ChrisLoiselle> I will make a note to do this tomorrow!

Kathy: These are in my repository but feel free to have a look and contribute

Helen: Videos are not needed, but text instructions are easier to skim through to find the bit you need - with screenshots

Wilco: Agree - as videos get out of date fast

<ChrisLoiselle> I think Google Docs is fine . +1 to screenshot and notes

Catherine: Yes - I like the idea with screenshots for the complex items

<ChrisLoiselle> https://github.com/w3c/wcag2ict/wiki/GitHub-instructions is listed here for reference

Wilco: Are we happy to have this as a Google Doc? And where to we keep it in the agenda page?

All: Agree

Kathy: Can we have a practice Repo?

Helen: It is easy to not make a mistake as we cannot publish anything!

Wilco: It is easy to create - I will do it

Better define how rules related to page states (30 min)

Trevor: Shares screen

<trevor> https://github.com/act-rules/act-rules.github.io/discussions/2046

Trevor: Talking about adding in steps on stateful rules to help get to the right state for the testing examples
… A point made from Kathy is quite apt, that if done for manual then shouldn't it also be done for automation
… each example shown has the steps to follow for the test state. So we have an overall description followed by the steps to get to the test state
… Thought people?

Kathy: Works for me!

Wilco: Should the steps be in the example itself so easier to follow when testing?

Trevor: I have no problem doing that but have we done it before?

Helen: Will steps need to be added into all rules going forward?

<ChrisLoiselle> The way I've been going through the implementation is have the rule then open the pass or fail examples in another window to work through outcomes and go through the outcome select lists, if that helps within the context of this discussion.

Trevor: Only for those that need to find the new states, and most rules do not need this.

<ChrisLoiselle> +1 to clarify the test steps if not in the SC

<ChrisLoiselle> to clarify SC

Trevor: There might be others about triggering the state if it is not called out in the SC then we need to add steps

Helen: Ok I will update the manual rule template if this is agreed

Wilco: We might need to review the current rules that may need this
… like the keyboard trap one

Trevor: Yes we might need to review any stateful rules

Tom: May need a new title for the steps to help clarify them?

Trevor: I will move on the exception part next week

HTML page language subtag matches default language

Wilco: The name of the rules are no longer populating the rule sheet due to a Google update - I will fix it!

<trevor> https://www.w3.org/WAI/standards-guidelines/act/rules/ucwvc8/proposed/

Wilco: we got as far as the lang to be empty if there is no content?

Trevor: It will fail elsewhere won't it?

Wilco: We just care about it passing the test criteria like in 1 rule we care if it has a lang attribute and another checks the lang attribute is valid, but we have an inapplicable in one, but it fails in another

<ChrisLoiselle> I would want to be consistent

Trevor: Can we just remove it?

Wilco: We are trying to teach a title is needed, and therefore a language is needed, so to have this as inapplicable goes against this?
… and Kathy asked - what about numbers? And Helen made a comment on the numbers need to be pronounced
… If a page is empty how can you define a language?
… A page requires a title so it is never truly empty

Tom: Do we have titles in the examples given or are they assumed?

Helen: You never truly have an empty page so cannot have an example with this

Wilco: Would the manual testers all fail this? As a big yes, we need to update the rule so that there is always a lang attribute
… Adds notes to the sheet

Kathy: Can we also look at inapplicable examples 5 and 6 - Trusted tester fails these - how do others feel?

Chris: For me I agree - these fail

Wilco: These fail another rule, so not sure?

Tom: Can you set up a way to map to other rules where it does fail?

Wilco: We cannot have things that fail the rule in one but not in the other, rule - but we could update the background links to explicitly call out a related rule to be where it does fail

Tom: I will raise an issue

<thbrunet> act-rules/act-rules.github.io#2059

Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by scribe.perl version 217 (Fri Apr 7 17:23:01 2023 UTC).