Cognitive and Learning Disabilities Accessibility Task Force Teleconference

01 May 2023


Jan_, Lisa, JustineP, Jennie, Rain, julierawe, kb, Becca_Monteleone, kirkwood, ShawnT, JohnRochford, jeanne, Santina
katie and EA


<Lisa> clear agenda

<Lisa> scribe: Rain

<lisa> scribe: Rain

<lisa> zakim next item

updates and actions https://docs.google.com/document/d/15HtPkkYx1CIl6bAwP2nsSZKhqTVbqcuMDRz5RmtmvXg/edit#heading=h.ka7r1m4q5vkc

Lisa: next week we will be focusing on sprints and who is doing what moving forward
... checking in to see if anyone has any updates
... Jennie has set the collaborative documents meeting for tomorrow, so if you want to be involved, reach out

Jennie: having difficulty understanding where there is a zoom link that we can use
... is there one we can use?

Lisa: can use Lisa's or COGA
... will email it to Jennie
... we have two subgroup meetings this week in parallel
... May 3 has a clear language meeting, and on Thurs. May 4 a structure meeting
... and a second for mental health

Jennie: images subgroup has a meeting on Friday afternoon US time, added to COGA calendar

patterns from test stratagy group

Lisa: will give more attention to subgroups next week when we discuss the new sprints
... Inviting Shawn and Jennie to share

Shawn: sharing screen

<ShawnT> HTML: [4.3.6 Provide Search (Pattern)](https://www.w3.org/TR/coga-usable/#provide-search-pattern)

<ShawnT> Doc: [4.3.6 Provide Search (Pattern)](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-FPbYKghJUYvn-9UzZGkANXdYCPPAFjf/edit?usp=sharing&ouid=114934085576672059156&rtpof=true&sd=true)

Shawn: picked out 10 patterns to go through for testing initially and figured out how to test them
... today only focusing on 2 of them, sharing links
... starting off with Search
... there are a lot of details in the patterns that would be nice to define better to help with testing
... some patterns can be covered under others, and one test can get both of them

<ShawnT> HTML: [4.3.6 Provide Search (Pattern)](https://www.w3.org/TR/coga-usable/#provide-search-pattern)

<ShawnT> Doc: [4.3.6 Provide Search (Pattern)](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-FPbYKghJUYvn-9UzZGkANXdYCPPAFjf/edit?usp=sharing&ouid=114934085576672059156&rtpof=true&sd=true)

Shawn: example, "make it easy to undo form errors pattern" and "letting users go back"

<ShawnT> - 4.5.5 Make it Easy to Undo Form Errors (Pattern) and

<ShawnT> - 4.5.2 Let Users Go Back (Pattern)

ShawnT: created documents for each document
... tried to come up with answers to the patterns, what kinds of tests they are, and whether any of them could be automated

scribing note -- refer to the documents for the details of what was written, only scribing what isn't in the document

ShawnT: also looking at "Letting the users go back"
... a bit more complicated than Search because looking at different ways a user might go back

<ShawnT> HTML: [4.5.2 Let Users Go Back (Pattern)](https://www.w3.org/TR/coga-usable/#let-users-go-back-pattern)

<ShawnT> Doc: [4.5.2 Let Users Go Back (Pattern)](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-_8j7udr4-lIJo5i2KWsrGMzY1LE0mvq/edit?usp=sharing&ouid=114934085576672059156&rtpof=true&sd=true)

ShawnT: if you can't access the word doc, let Shawn know and will convert to Google Doc for access
... lots of different mechanisms and ways to go back or undo
... we weren't certain about things like what if the developer disables the undo button in the agent but then creates their own?
... some of the tests can be automated, but not all of them
... one thing we noticed is that there are some details in the patterns that need to be better defined
... next steps, Shawn stepping back from the subgroup for now
... looking for other people to take up co-lead position
... but should we just wait to see what Clear Language comes up with when defining their test?
... should we focus on defining the details in the patterns to make them more testable?
... need more contributors, there is a lot of work ahead

Lisa: next week meant to define the next row of sprints, so thank you to Shawn and Jennie for this work. When we start making the sprints, question is what is in the next sprint?
... need to define together based on KPIs
... if OK, sounds like we've come to a good break point

ag recuting

Rachael: on AG, have not kicked off the subgroups yet, but many of the guidelines would benefit greatly from COGA input
... don't have enough folks to cover all of the subgroups
... are there people in the community group we would want to invite?
... which potentially ramps them in as invited experts

Rain: there are a few people in the community group that we can think of, Kiki and I will connect and introduce them to Lisa and Rachael

Lisa: asking if we want to also put an update for the community group onto the agenda for the week of May 10

Kiki_: we launched a form for people who might want to give feedback but don't want to or aren't able to join the group, hoping to pull that feedback together soon to share with the group

<Zakim> Rachael, you wanted to make sure folks know about the WCAG 3 survey at https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/working_draft_23/

Rachael: there is a WCAG survey that closes tonight for the working draft, last pass before update
... if any major concerns, this is the time to let AG know
... this is a reset from the point of view that have taken all of the feedback, and have changed over to exploring some different approaches
... don't think there is anything in there beyond exploratory stage, nor conflict with what COGA wants to do
... there will be many updates going forward and opportunities to change it

Lisa: back to Shawn and Jennie and test plans
... really interesting drafts with these two patterns
... do we want to put in more time getting them stronger?
... or do we want to use them as a draft example and focus on other things for the testing plan?
... what are the options for the next sprint for the test plan? Grouping things that can be tested together? Refining the ones here? Trying drafts of others?

Jennie: complicated, but one of the things that they came to is that making an outline or a table of contents
... seemed ahead of where we were
... elements that needed more definition first
... may need to break down concepts that have a word like "easy" and further refining what easy means and what it looks like
... to make it more concrete and defineable
... which would support the work for revisions to making content useable

<ShawnT> +1

lisa: is there an outline draft where you could put words that need to be clarified?

Jennie: yes, we did pull them out and listed out questions we had for the ones that we reviewed
... they aren't all word or definition specific, but they are in the template

Shawn: sharing template

lisa: we could also have a baseline that we recommend, and allow people to make their own baseline. You declare who you are excluding
... that could be practical as an alternative way of getting around definitions, and how you define "easy" could be part of that

ShawnT: template starts with questions which asks about what tests are needed, can they be automated, and which patterns are related

<ShawnT> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-IOIIhpa8kEPksGDnqBxZd9w66-k8MCz/edit?usp=sharing&ouid=114934085576672059156&rtpof=true&sd=true

ShawnT: started with enable apis and extensions
... there were a lot of questions about this one
... complexity about differences between web of things, internet of things, differences between widgets, apis and extensions, etc.

<ShawnT> https://docs.google.com/document/d/10AbRMh9WN7DvEcVAy-GeaMH7rlqgSNqR/edit?usp=sharing&ouid=114934085576672059156&rtpof=true&sd=true

Jennie: calling attentions to what we need to pay attention to before we can piece apart the elements to make sure that the testable statements can be tested
... so there is pre-work to support the work
... definitions is one, but then also going back and making sure that we can consistently apply a term throughout the pattern to support making it testable

Lisa: suggesting that the next sprint (8 weeks) for this project is closing in on the template and testing it against the ones that have already been done
... and also testing it against the language subgroup's work
... next sprint, zoom in on the questions, what kind of terms need to be defined, and what answers do we have, then propose solutions (like the baseline concept)
... even if don't define the baseline yet

Jennie: should we talk a little about the style of participation that Shawn and John were feeling was important so that those who might want to participate are aware?

ShawnT: thinking weekly meetings to go through would be very beneficial to see where everyone is at
... every two weeks not enough
... also, what the Clear Language subgroup is doing, may need to see where that is going because they may end up doing the same thing

<Jennie> +1

lisa: asking Shawn and Jennie if comfortable leaving defining the next sprint until next week? Both said yes

<lisa> next item

Becca_Monteleone: working on updating two issue papers that have stagnated
... last week, talked about conversational interfaces and voice systems
... biggest part was about defining what we mean by that
... wants to share that definition and get feedback before moving onto talking through the next paper

Scribing note -- not scribing what can be found in the issue paper notes found here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1B1vCqlU1IF5UmqxhJAy8Khdi-kRQNPalVX8f3lCMr7w/edit#heading=h.9j8rnhzb9sv8

Becca_Monteleone: proposal is to narrow down to conversational voice systems, where the user supplies voice input and gets a response, or the other way around

Rain: asking if it is okay to bring the ai vs. pre-programmed interfaces together into one space since they could be so significantly different?
... or should we think about two separate papers

Becca_Monteleone: good open question

Lisa: suggesting to leave this as open questions at the bottom of the document

Becca_Monteleone: moving over to the Wayfinding issue paper
... paper is quite old, found updates in the last 5 years
... for the most part not a lot of change to the challenges section
... but did add a lot to the proposed solutioins

<Becca_Monteleone> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1TDtuC_iMyS_X6nXwyEEAu4Abp2tXHb86/edit?usp=sharing&ouid=102321809599068419955&rtpof=true&sd=true

Becca_Monteleone: also have open questions here, which will add to the bottom of the document
... this document was written before mental health research was part of the umbrella, so wondering if there are some mental health challenges that also need to be added

lisa: smallest unit possible could imply inches, centimeters, when probably mean number of steps

Becca_Monteleone: next step: add the open question to the bottom of each document, then share with the list

lisa: asking Becca to also include a bit on the process used to find these
... so that we can identify if we think more needsto be added?

<lisa> rain will see if she can get access.

Becca_Monteleone: also looking for help for access

lisa: reminding everyone to sign up to scribe

<lisa> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/coga/wiki/Scribe_list

Zakim: make minutes

RRSAgent: make minutes

<lisa> (hurray!)

Summary of Action Items

Summary of Resolutions

[End of minutes]

Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl version 1.200 (CVS log)
$Date: 2023/05/01 16:00:39 $

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Default Present: Jan_, Lisa, JustineP, Jennie, Rain, julierawe, kb, Becca_Monteleone, kirkwood, ShawnT, JohnRochford, jeanne, Santina
Present: Jan_, Lisa, JustineP, Jennie, Rain, julierawe, kb, Becca_Monteleone, kirkwood, ShawnT, JohnRochford, jeanne, Santina
Regrets: katie and EA
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