Meeting minutes
<wendyreid> date: 2023-04-18
wendyreid: Hoping Gregorio with the research project from LIA
… Deep analysis of a FXL book.
EPUB Final stages it is now in PR. waiting for votes.
wendyreid: Charter for the next we need a maintenance WG for EPUB / Audio / Publication Manifest. What to do with the TF's
… A11y is in the CG now.
… What do we do with this group. Should we move to the CG
… can have more people in the CG. if we come up with anything that can be implemented in the EPUB, the WG can make changes but must be fully baked first in the CG.
… Nothing should change, please join the CG. people will be the same work the same.
… main goal will be the best practices doc on FXL production.
… wasn't going to be a spec. the wider audience doesn't know the difference between a real spec or a CG Note. So won't make a big difference. if something might changes the EPUB Spec that would be require the WG to step in once fully fleshed out and proven in CG.
… input welcome.
Rachel_Osolen: I think its a good idea, more people help, more input etc. more ideas, more experts to help us, etc.
wendyreid: I will deal with the logistics. Most of us here should be in the CG, but will send out an email.
… I know that Ken is at the LBF. So he will present next meeting. Since Gregorio isn't here lets open it up for topics here.
… Publishing CG.
shadi: I only see the EPUB CG.
… Found it, at the bottom of the list.
wendyreid: any other topics? Great discussion on the mailing list on Kens topic.
Laurence: Don't have results for today. When we move to the CG, everything we are doing is Best Practices / incubating ideas.
… idea: simplifying multiple renditions to put inside the same container both an FXL and Reflow in the same book.
… if this idea from SNE in France wants to push this forward in CG. how would we launch this idea?
wendyreid: book can be both fixed and reflow with different style sheets. way it would work in the CG. we would be under Wolfgang and Xangs. for every idea, have a proposal explains this idea who will is benefit / serve. user story. As a publisher I want to pushing both FXL and reflow in the same book. open an issue and then we can discuss it in the TF, and the chairs of the CG were looking for ideas. we have a lot of folks in the
CG from Education. I really like this.
Laurence: are you talking to github?
<wendyreid> w3c/
laurent_: You can link to the doc from the github issue.
Laurence: we share the images in both, it shouldn't be too big if you have the two versions in the same book
Hadrien: are we talking about revising multiple renditions?
laurent_: we are toying with the idea based on the SNE work in France.
<Gautier> Sample ED TF use case Issue on github: w3c/
Hadrien: my advice would be don't go there. the way it works having multiple publications in a doc, you don't really know OPF 1&2, it was over engineered. B&N used it for newspapers / magazines.
… there may be a better way.
Laurence: there is a need out there to download one EPUB with both reflow/FXL
… I realize the problem with OPF1&2 would be good to figure out the right solution is if multiple rendition isn't a good fit.
… dont' really want to go with a private solution.
Hadrien: a better solution is something we should seek. I was there when multiple renditions.
Laurence: After we worked on image a11y this year we decided to work this year on FXL a11y part of our charter.
… Education, cookbook, travel, we need to find a solution. meet every month. so far few things done on email rendition how it can be used. only the beginning. there is a lack in the publishing standards.
Hadrien: I would be glad to come to join if you would like.
… AHL its not something worked on in the 3.3 scope
… multiple rendtions is implied and AHL is focused on that. covers: region in FXL map to XHTML id. one part of AHL is meant for that. pushed by Barnes and Nobel. you get to the XHTML version of that article.
wendyreid: Aquafadas, worked on that but doesn't work in this space anymore.
laurent_: publisher req. AHL was very complex req. were very high. to link to a page back and forth was good for comics etc. if publishers req. is simplistic, when you open the doc. option 1 or 2 fxl or reflow you have to close and reopen you can choose a different version.
wendyreid: we had 2 proposals back in 2021. less complicated. alternate style sheets fxl and reflow style sheet or we would use fallbacks.
Laurence: reflowable much be more accessible, can't be the same xhtml structure.
wendyreid: we proposed but didn't test. fxl built where every char. is in a span tag. but may be the tool.
… file with more html or we get an image
Hadrien: AHL, how can we avoid that but get something similar features. toggle to move from one to the other, page by page. rather than entire publication.
<wendyreid> https://
Hadrien: fallbacks are implemented but not much. was at risk but we had some implementations.
Hadrien: AHL link between the two wasn't the issue, selecting the OPF's which could conflict was the major problem.
… Advance Hybrid Layout
<wendyreid> https://
Hadrien: over 10 years ago.
… we had 3 different documents from this work.
wendyreid: we do have the IDPF and access to the docs.
… as needed we can pull them in to the W3C.
Gregorios's Insights / Demo
<wendyreid> https://
Gregorio: publisher asked to make this FXL children's book accessible,
… first combined all the images and then added alt text, what the character is doing, we sent to the publisher to get publisher approval.
… color contrast was the next issue. we proposed small changes to different colors to comply with WCAG-AA minimum contrast.
… would require illustrator to change the colors.
… identification of semantics.
… addd language tags.
… added image descriptions.
… adaption of color contrast issues.
… semantic tagging was lost from indesign, export to reflow you get H1, export as fxl you only get <p> tags. so lost a lot of semantics
… <p class="h1">Title<p>
… then we wrote a script to convert those into real <h1>
… additional transformations, for style
… fixed the reading orders and heard a demo of Voice Over reading in Italian correctly.
… EPUBCheck followed 3.3, ACE passed Accessibility 1.1 WCAG 2.1 AA, but didn't pass EAA due to the inability to change the fonts.
… Research on Fixed Layout with SVGs
… find Low vision users. clicking on text to make it reflowable.
… make the entire process more robust / industrial.
Laurence: won't pass WCAG 2.2 for level AA due to the more stringent font requirements.
Gregorio: PDF tags is very limited. similar experience with PDFs and FXL.
Laurence: we might reach the full a11y thats a problem for us, we need to make investments that are reliable due to legal requriements.
shadi: Why people think this WCAG req. would not be met, and EAA would not be met. we do expect a tech. spec to be written we could explain areas of feasibility / non-feasibility.
wendyreid: I didn't realize how pressing.
shadi: 1.4.12 text spacing, might go back into CR. its phrased in way content supports these properties. if it doesn't then the req. wouldn't be applicable. around EAA what req. is not met?
Gregorio: on WCAG is simpler if the format enables you to do that, but for EAA, some requirements are quite low level. https://
… Presenting in fonts of adequate size and suitable shape, taking into account foreseeable conditions of use and using sufficient contrast, as well as adjustable spacing between letters, lines and paragraphs
shadi: technical spec hasn't been written yet, we might be able to adjust it for the WCAG approach.
wendyreid: we can discuss in the next meetng.