Meeting minutes
ACT Standup
Wilco: Working on property values PR using ID ref to make a new rule and aim to wrap it up soonish
… Done some PR reviews
Catherine: Light week for me as I need to get to Todd's request and Carlos to review
Tom: I had a busy work week so not much done I'm afraid
Trevor: I am working on my rules in the rule sheet, and Carlos has reviewed my issue to put it in a PR
… I spent time looking at the state stuff we will go through today
Kathy: I started a draft of the plans for the GitHub help - Helen and Will might look at it soon so we can get together for a review
… I am looking at the accessible name items
Helen: I reviewed Dan's updates on PR #2022
Cancel March 16th TF call
Wilco: we have no meeting on the 16th as CSUN/Axe-Con is on
<ToddL> I did not go. I'll put my stuff here. two-week call for review on PR #1926 and I have to hand over form field label i descriptive so it can get worked on. nothing other than that.
Will: I am unwell
Essential text change definition, discussion
Trevor: I have PR #1916 open a while, for the pause/stop/hidden unless essential text. So what is essential text?
<trevor> https://
Trevor: I have written a definition - please read it now for a review
… An essential text change of an element that routinely changes and provide accurate data to the user
… The examples were easy on some parts, and the confusion and heavy lifting is examples of what is important to the user. So if not given that timely information that they may miss out. So I listed a few examples on what is important and not
… we have some specific examples like the safety of people is important. Or a change in the collaborative systems so you should not turn those off.
… But I added some non-important examples of if you miss it - it is not life altering
… How much more is needed to close it down? As it is a bit open ended
Catherine: I think it is difficult to get everything - so it is good to add a caveat of it is not everything of what should be contained.
Trevor: Yeah - I tried to cover that with the text just before the lists
Catherine: I think that helps, but not quite the right verbiage
Wilco: I do not like the open ended definitions as they already inherently ambiguous so you leave the door open for someone to argue their point is the "something else"
… WCAG does the open ended ambiguous definitions but we do not want to do that as we can go back and add it in. So we need to assume this list is complete.
… We have mechanisms to do this and I think we should try here
… As you showed this, I thought a way to flip this is maybe define what is not essential
… Leave everything else in the this may or may not fail category
Trevor: I do like that
Wilco: It fits better with our philosophy as we agree on the non-essential and we would fail those
Kathy: If an image is changing it does not cover that?
Trevor: No this is just text changing
… so are there any objections to inverting this? No - I will work on it.
… What is the difference in ambiguous and objective?
Wilco: In the rules format we made this distinction: Ambiguous means it can be open to interpretation or open ended, and objective is that there is no room for interpretation as not qualitative
Better define how rules related to page states
Trevor: It has been a month or so on this state talk - so I hope you remember it well
<trevor> act-rules/
Trevor: we have had some iterations but I still have some questions in my head to go through
… talks to the states of roles like the alert shown on the screen
… But I want to cover the questions I had from Carlos's feedback
<trevor> https://
Trevor: so error messages describing the issue. The applicability has interesting points
… so it must identify the test target, the text must be visible etc.
… So Carlos gets around having to talk about state by inferring it
Kathy: It is not clear to me sorry?
Trevor: So if there are no form field indicators it is an automatic pass, but if there is a form field indicator, there is an error that references the form field it refers to
… So it can be through text or presentation
… he assumes that it is in its end state and not how to get there
Wilco: This is a potential problem with the rule format. We have put some parts in the expectation that is subjective that should be in the applicability
… So we have no error indicator or there is and a bunch of end states to check against
Trevor: But we have some tripping points *reads out the text in the note for PR #1953
Wilco: So if there is a pop up message and focus moves to it - that is fine, but we need to know the before and after to know if it passes
Trevor: Yes as Carlos assumes a fixed state whereas we are looking changes of focus of state a and b
Wilco: We want the applicability to include when an event happens like a status message appears and does/does not receive focus
Trevor: So not more than one rule per state, but set it up to handle each type
… and bubbling from event listeners causes issues too
… if you interact with a status message it is very difficult to grab all scenarios but will only focus on some
… like we might want applicability to just initiate a status message that a human can do but programmatically it is difficult
Wilco: We did pitch using Gherkin to write these using Given/When/Then
… Given the home page When I click Then a modal appears
<Wilco> https://
Wilco: we took inspiration from that but we do not have the When part in the rules
act-rules/
Helen: This relates to #2022 as also needs some When parts
Wilco: Do we add it into applicability or?
Trevor: Well we could add a new section to cover this?
… multiple expectations is a bit messy
Wilco: YEs - I want that in its own bit - so I am happy with that
… There needs to be a better way to do this
Helen: We could use a section like "Action"?
Wilco: We do not want to tell people how to test - we want it to be flexible
Trevor: Interact/Activate might be better