<scribe> scribe : ChrisLoiselle

ACT Standup

Wilco: Going through pull requests. WCAG3 has kept me busy.

Daniel: Will do more than planning as we go on.

Helen: I sent an email on manual testing ask. Asking from help. Dan from SiteImprove is helping out.

Todd: Pull request 1926 review and discussion around that will happen.

Tom: First pass on iframe PR. Wilco had comments, will review that with him.

Catherine: I did one pull request this week.

Trevor: couple of changes on aria state , regarding changes around that. Sent to Wilco. Also creating rule around aria state prohibited

Chris: Will help Helen on manual testing ask email and follow up with her.

Kathy: Apologies on weekly calendar send out. Agenda item on label and how well it needs to match label and accessible name topic. Pull request topic on implementation results on trusted tester.

Will: Not feeling well, nothing to report in on yet.

Use of GitHub, how's it going, can we help?

Use of GitHub , how are we doing with it?

Wilco: I have the impression that some aren't having best time working in GitHub. What can we do with this?

Will, Chris and Catherine talk to learning how to use and learning in and outs of it.

Wilco: GitHub works in it if you are in it regularly, is challenging if not in day to day.

Will: If I don't do something over and over again, it doesn't set in.

Wilco: Helen, do you have any comments too?

Helen: I can make a mistake and update it and learn from it. It is very important to have it usable. There as some things that I need to be told to do. Sometimes reviewing the documentation on what to do is not timely. Talks to more intuitive and usable.

<ToddL> Git is open source, GitHub is a free/paid business model.

Wilco: GitHub is fundamental to what we do, it would possible to amend how we use it.

Will: When we need to do something , we need to be able to reference documentation on our steps on how to update or changes.

Maybe we do have that as a reference doc.

Todd: I use git through command line, so when I go through web interface , it is small amusement park to Disneyland, in terms of what options are there. I've been using Git for a long time.

Youtube and tutorials are out there for reference , they do help when I'm stuck.

<kathy> Chris: wcag2ict created GitHub instructions

Daniel: we use review process in addition to PR process. To Todd's point I'm not sure you can do through the command line.
... Talks to GitHub user interface on website .

Wilco: I hear that we are using GitHub and it is going ok, but learning is needed. It isn't like we need to move to Google Docs.

Can we import to Google Docs and Suggestions in Docs, then in agreement , import it to markdown and into a repo?

Helen: Formatting is a challenge.
... Would it make it more work than what we are doing now?

Wilco: It splits the group between Google Docs and GitHub.

Helen: Merging and checking in on GitHub is limited.

Kathy: I think tutorial and documentation is great idea.

Chris: We can possibly use WCAG2ICT videos as a baseline or ask AG to also make these type of instructional videos.

Will: Volunteers as well .

Chris: I will as well,

Kathy: I can help out as well.

https://github.com/w3c/wcag2ict/wiki/GitHub-instructions#notifications is the WCAG2ICT link, not sure if it is referenceable outside that group

https://docs.github.com/en/get-started

Heading has non-empty name, discussion

<kathy> scribe+

<kathy> wilco: this helps answer part of the label in name question

<kathy> ... we've reviewed this rule before and it got stuck

<Wilco> https://www.w3.org/WAI/standards-guidelines/act/rules/ffd0e9/proposed/

<kathy> ... Chris is liaison. Do empty headings fail the SC?

I'm back.

<kathy> surrendering scribe

Wilco: Question is , what do we do with this rule?
... should we move 1.3.1 a secondary requirement?

Helen: Screen Readers now ignore empty headings, correct?

Will: Empty headings are ignored, are meaningless.

Helen: If it isn't impacting users, it shouldn't be done but do we want to monitor? If it impacts users, it should be a rule, if not , do we want to review it?

Will: HTML doesn't render it. AT ignores it.

Daniel: Do we have clear definition of what empty means. Styles, whitespaces?

Wilco: Empty equals no accessible name. There's no characters present.

Daniel: What if there is an empty heading then a class ?

Wilco: It wouldn't be empty any more.
... Does anyone fail them ?

Tom: We flag , but we don't fail it.

Kathy: I don't think we do either. If we had a h2 and not characters, does that leave a space in page?

Wilco: There needs to be something in there.

Tom: If I put an empty H1 in code sandbox, it does show up.

it is like a block space

Wilco: If feels like this needs to be deprecated as nobody fails it.

Catherine: I think deprecating is a good idea and clean it up.

<Helen> +1

<trevor> +1

<kathy> +1

<Catherine> +1

+1

<thbrunet> +1

<ToddL> +1

Plus ones are to deprecate the rule .

Kathy: Do we update heading is descriptive rule to showcase ?

RESOLUTION: Remove 1.3.1 from empty-headings rule and deprecate the rule

Wilco: I would use it as an example, yes.

RESOLUTION: Remove 1.3.1 from empty-headings rule and deprecate the rule

Label in name rule, discussion

Kathy: This agenda item talks about 2.5.3 , discussion follows from last week.
... If you have spaces that aren't in visible label (e.g. 2023) , would that be a failure of rule?
... how to speech tools handle these difference between visible label and accessible name? Some of tools can use visible label and the accessible name, some can not do that. Some only pull accessible name.
... we are thinking that the SC is requiring that the accessible name and visible label must match . We can put the AT parsing information in background, but they accessible name and visible label needs to match without adding additional spaces.
... speech tool users can see visible label and talk to it with speech tools, that was intent of rule.

+1 as that is how I interpret it

Helen: what about hyphen , pronunciations , etc. ? I don't think it has an impact on what is read. Will that have the same impact as a space?

Tom: If you are trying to code it for a speech tool, you aren't letting speech tool do its thing to parse and understand it
... you are taking capabilities away from speech tool or AT

Helen: perhaps adding how it is meant to be read vs. how it is being read. Using hyphen that way, so that could be done with words, numbers are another topic . Words that are branding can be more difficult in terms of announcing.

Kathy: I think there are a few conditions in understanding of 2.5.3 , don't know if anything addresses what Helen is presenting. If the capital or punctuation in the visible name but not in the accessible name.
... there are quite a few issues related to this rule. Some of the other items are ave vs. avenue in accessible name.

Helen: acronyms meant for one thing but not presenting correctly.

Daniel: I think this could be influenced in many ways, in addition to add this to the accessible name.
... Speech dictionary is built in the tool, so you could update that too from the dictionary standpoint.

Helen: Hyphenating should be allowed, as it is recognized either or.

Wilco: Anytime you are deviating , you are creating a problem that may or may not be covered. None of those exceptions should be in rule.

Tom: A full time JAWS user had the terms to what they expected to hear, it impacted the end user's processing. Sometimes you need to understand what we expect to hear vs. what is heard.

Catherine: Pronouncing across countries is present in my work, so I'm not sure changing is the answer.

Daniel: Talks to example in Braille as well and reading that as well vs. what is the visual representation.

Todd: talks to FAQs page and screen reader reading that a certain way. Stakeholders were asking what we can do on that page. Hyphens were proposed, but I didn't want to do that.

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Default Present: kathy, Helen, Wilco, trevor, thbrunet, Catherine_Droege, ChrisLoiselle, ToddL, Catherine, Daniel, Will_C
Present: kathy, Helen, Wilco, trevor, thbrunet, Catherine_Droege, ChrisLoiselle, ToddL, Catherine, Daniel, Will_C
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