Cognitive and Learning Disabilities Accessibility Task Force Teleconference

21 February 2023


EA, jeanne, JohnRochford, julierawe, kirkwood, ShawnT

Meeting minutes

Clear Language meeting

<julierawe> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1zW-UubALQOCokCoLnIuQrnGNKLm2uHi36S8yhAojrIE/edit#heading=h.vqr6a0mxwynr

WCAG 3 has a new resource and Jeanne Spellman has a new document as a 'Process for Writing Guidelines using Maturity Levels' link above

The document is aimed at user needs and analysing the user needs - WCAG 2+ was based mainly on a technical solutions WCAG 3 is about outcomes on what the user needs

There may be outcomes that cannot be tested in the same way as WCAG 2.2 etc - we need to be better targetted towards the user and there will be new procedure that will be based on maturity levels - things need to show how mature documents are at 5 different levels

The basic level is a placeholder - 2nd level is exploratory where rough details are worked out then 3rd level is development and the 4th level refines on the direction and major issues - adds supporting infornation. Final level is mature when a document is ready to become part of the standard.

The idea of the writing process has now been broken down in to a step by step process - this means it can be developed in as an iterative process - still needs to be settled.

The content is about the different ways things can be filed and shared. Important to make sure you are able to make Google docs - some companies do not allow the use of Google docs.

Shawn mentioned that text to speech does not work with a Google doc - needs to download the Google doc into Microsoft Word. Word docx can be saved on Google Drive and it works with the Google doc format

Jean pointed out that it all has to be saved as HTML and Shawn added that it was the commenting was the problem using the Mac built in VoiceOver with Safari

corrrect 'Mac spoken content' not Mac spoken content

<ShawnT> Have your Mac speak text that’s on the screen - Apple Support (CA): https://support.apple.com/en-ca/guide/mac-help/mh27448/mac

There is problem when synching Word and Google docs if collaborating as sometime items are overwritten

Jeanne pointed out that it is really important that we do not lose any documents - must be findable - in the Silver folders - look carefully how the files are named - this group might start all the files with Clear Language so they are all kept together and email the chairs for documents can be linked through to the wiki or another location.

Julie asked about section 4 - wanted to know if the Clear Language team would be working on all the a,b,c,d sub sections...

Jeanne said that the a,b,c,d were just a way of showing how files should be named

Jeanne said the first thing is to write the placeholder text - this is important as otherwise Jeanne has to write it. It is very simple - this is what we intend to work on and this is a rough description of what you want to write about. A very brief description 1or 2 sentences and then functional needs

The functional needs come from another document link provided

The link to functional needs will be forwarded in the future

<julierawe> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ndRziXRfnyAgDaL8ctByQagDdM36H8QxV44lO3u8zgc/edit

Julie asked whether we were looking at all the functional needs or more specific functional needs at a time

Jeanne suggested just higher level functional needs without great detail - Julie added something that can be seen at a glance?

Jeanne felt it was important to keep the detail to the exploratory level not placeholder level. The list must be too long as this is about cateorisation and the deep analysis does not occur until the exploratory level.

Need co-occurring challenges but later at a higher level.

Julie asked if placeholder level would be cognitive and learning difficulties rather than all the specifics linked to this type of difficulty

Jeanne then suggested that in the placeholder just pick the most important three outcomes. The outcomes are very basic - these cannot always be testable but these are the outcomes for a user that they need. They may not be programmatically testable - the outcome is about the user knowing that their needs have been addressed.

Jeanne pointed out that outcome could be 'uses common words' for clear language.

John Rochford asked about different languages or are we focussing on English only

Jeanne said that English at placeholder level but later levels will need such comments as 'uses negatives appropriately

higher levels there will be conditional statements allowed such as If Russian double negative are advised etc - conditional not usually allowed but now this will be an option where there needs to be a flexible approach especially when thinking about different languages

Resources are still needed and coga work already completed may be useful for the documents that now need to be developed. There is a goal section and that is when it has been completed. there is an example for captions.

This is all in the document with the link following https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ndRziXRfnyAgDaL8ctByQagDdM36H8QxV44lO3u8zgc/edit#heading=h.al9gb7xmrm2b

Exploratory is the next section but Jeanne was keen to stick with the placeholder section this week.

Julie questioned the caption example and wondered if one can add another example of a user need. John confirmed that captions can also help memory and so the placeholder idea of keeping it short may be hard.

Julie pointed out that there is no testing in this section.

Jeanne has a goal that when this is published in April this document will be written for all the WCAG 2 guidance.

Julie asked about having several placeholders for Clear Language that could lead to several different outcomes.

Jeanne said the idea is to have high level guidelines and detailed outcomes so Clear Language is one topic with many outcomes. There will be searches and filtering as there will lots of information - getting away from the numbering and artificial divisions.

All the things about Clear Language will in the one guideline

Jeanne said that she will not hold Clear Language to three outcomes if it is impossible- but should try to keep it short as that is more memorable.

The group should work on the placeholder first and have a meeting next week and then work on exploratory as the next section.

Julie thanked Jeanne for blocking out so much time. Julie will send out an invite that work with John Rochford's time to include Jeanne.

Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by scribe.perl version 210 (Wed Jan 11 19:21:32 2023 UTC).


Succeeded: s/ VoiceOver/ Mac spoken content/

Active on IRC: EA, jeanne, JohnRochford, julierawe, kirkwood, ShawnT