scribe+
JYM: One clarification in CFR, went in today
JYM: Some open issues have PRs. Reviewed lots of things, but haven't worked on my own
https://github.com/act-rules/act-rules.github.io/pull/1986
Wilco: Worked on announcements, image of text, and secondary requirements.
Dan: Have one PR, needs one review
Gaicomo: completed my issues, will pick up new issues
Helen: Waiting for one more review on manual rules PR
<Jean-Yves> https://github.com/act-rules/act-rules.github.io/issues?q=is%3Aopen+is%3Aissue+label%3A%22help+wanted%22
https://www.w3.org/blog/news/archives/9764
<Jean-Yves> Wilco: announcement that implementation page is live.
<Jean-Yves> Wilco: everybody should share the word on their SoMe.
<Jean-Yves> Wilco: close to have an editor's draft of the Format v1.1, hopefully before end of the year.
<Jean-Yves> Wilco: 8 new rules going to the WG for approval (2 color contrast, several "name is descriptive" one), could bring to 30 rules approved.
<Jean-Yves> Wilco: we're in touch with ARIA WG for reviewing/approving ARIA rules.
<Helen> https://github.com/act-rules/act-rules.github.io/pull/1979
Helen: There's a PR open, there
was one comment. I need some help with that.
... Are we having a break? I'm hoping to use that time to get
started.
<Tobias_Greiner_> precence+
JYM: The rule currently requires that there is a visible error, and an error in the accessibility tree.
Gaicomo: If the error is removed from the AX tree, I think it's a 3.3.1 failure
Sean: What if aria-invalid or
some hidden text is added to the label.
... It's in error, but there's no recommendation, is that a
failure of 3.3.3?
Gaicomo: In this scenario we don't have another indicator.
JYM: If we require both that the item is identified, and the error is described, that would be a failure of 3.3.1 still
Sean: I think the word "described" is vague. It's not telling me how to fix the error, that's different from 3.3.3.
JYM: I would agree that the SC is
to ensure the error appears for all users.
... The rule has two expectations, one for visible error, and
the second for an accessible description.
Wilco: I don't like this pattern of having two expectations, one of visible, and a second of AX tree. We've done that twice now. We could handle that with a separate rule on aria-hidden and 1.3.1.
<Sean> I see now, thank you. That makes it sound like it's both a failure for 1.3.1 and 3.3.1
JYM: I agree this rule is
complex. Even if we decide this is a 3.3.1 error, we can still
break down the rule.
... The rule you're suggesting, that aria-hidden stuff is meant
to be hidden.
... I think one question is if we want a rule on aria-hidden. I
think we do
... Then there's the possibility of simplifying the existing
rule.
... Does everyone agree to create a rule for aria-hidden, and
later revisit the question of 3.3.1?
everyone: yes
JYM: There's a question of if a
page without text needs a lang attribute
... Then we have inapplicable examples, if they should have
text.
... The last point is maybe something in the process. The last
example is a math element, but opening that in a separate tab,
it builds an HTML page around the XML element.
... If you open in a new tab you're viewing something
completely different, so I'm checking something that gets weird
results.
... I was thinking we were adding doctype to the example, but
we don't seem to in this case?
Gaicomo: Would be interesting to know how an empty page with a different language is announced.
JYM: If there is no lang attribute, and the screen reader goes to the default, that doesn't create an accessibility barrier
Tobias: An empty page, NVDA announces the URL
Sean: If the URL is in English, is that part of the page?
JYM: If there is no lang attribute, I don't see that as a barrier
Gaicomo: I agree, but in terms of the user experience there is no difference
Wilco: I think our examples should have titles, in which case this is a non-question. Empty pages fail WCAG
Helen: Is the semantics not more 4.1.1?
JYM: From what I read, I don't
think missing lang is a failure of 4.1.1. It was about the HTML
syntax, not content model.
... We'll update the example to make them better. That doesn't
solve a question on fully empty pages, but we shouldn't
care.
... Then the second point, inapplicable examples without lang.
I question whether we should make them fail the SC, which isn't
allowed.
... Then about MathML, it seems we're not adding XML doctype on
the element?
... When we do open that in a new tab we see an HTML page built
on top of the XML page created by the browser?
... I don't know if that's solvable, we still have an XML
file.
... So it's the browser redirecting?
Wilco: An implementor should
filter XML if they don't support it and report as
cantTell
... I'll add something about unsupported file types in the
implementations docs.
Tobias: I have a question on the
rule text has minimum contrast.
... does that include active state like hover or focus?
JYM: No, it doesn't. There is an open PR to try and solve that. We've been blocked on that.
<Jean-Yves> https://github.com/act-rules/act-rules.github.io/pull/1455
Wilco: We are working on that, but generally, unless the rule says otherwise the rule applies to all states the page can be in.
JYM: On the 22nd we do not have a call, so the next call will be January 12th
Wilco: Welcome new people
Helen: Happy holidays
Gaicomo: We talked about 4.1.1, I'm interested to talk about obsolete. It's not clear to me if we want to change the 2.0 and 2.1 versoins?
I think that's essential. We can't say there are new guidelines for 2.2, but not change it for 2.1 and 2.0
https://github.com/w3c/wcag/issues/2820
Dan: Lots going on, very
interesting.
... I noticed with the Math / XML, I saw that in Chrome &
Edge, I didn't see it in Firefox.
Tobias: Nice, very technical. Coming from research. I've been reading a lot about the rules. Good to know the people behind it.
Sean: Good. The parsing thing's interesting to me. I would like to devil's advocate about what happens when we remove it.
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