XForms Users Community Group Teleconference

02 December 2022


Alain, Erik, Steven

Meeting minutes

ACTION-2325: Steven and Erik, check the new submit-ready text


Erik: Continues

ACTION-2314: Compose text that matches the <control/> discussion for

mirroring (Steven)


"Either side can bind to an attribute

(https: //www.w3.org/2022/11/11-forms-minutes#t01),

but in that case both have to bind to a text node,

and the embedded form's referenced item must not have children.

QUESTION: And vice versa?"

Alain: I would think so.

Steven: I agree, but I wanted to check we all had the same agreement.

"QUESTION: How do we determine if the embedded form gets initialised from

the referenced data

or from its own data? Use heuristics, or should the <interface/> element "

specify that?

Steven: I think there is a good reason for the <interface/> element to specify which direction the initialisation comes from (the current proposal in the spec specifies it from the <control/> element)

Erik: Probably better to be explicit.
… in our implementation, mirroring only happens for complex content.
… we can also specify that a binding works like <input/>

Steven: From what you just described it sounds like there are three values for where initialisation comes from: external, internal, none.

Erik: I think it should be a dynamic, not static.

Steven: Use case?

Erik: Sub-form where the embedded form submits/stores the data; in some cases the outer form already has data, in other cases not.
… it also depends on when the embedded form gets initialised in the life-cycle
… sub-forms get initialised during the first refresh.
… seems to make sense.
… that's why we need heuristics.
… to prevent overwriting data.

Steven: That seems then still to need thought about how we specify initialisation....
… but that does answer the question about XForms-ready. which happens after the initial refresh.

Erik: The alternative would be to defer xforms-ready until after the sub-forms are ready

Alain: We have a different event for sub-forms, because we use <load/> to load sub-forms.

Steven: I have a similar use case with the XForms test suite, where I load a subform with an iframe with an attribute value

Alain: Can you communicate with an iframe.

Steven: I don't know yet. Possibly.

Alain: It's the way to specify an app with a single page
… is iframe deprecated?

Steven: Oh! Hadn't heard.

ACTION: Steven to find out if iframe is deprecated.

<trackbot> Created ACTION-2326 - Find out if iframe is deprecated. [on Steven Pemberton - due 2022-12-09].

"Question: If there is a binding mismatch, an xforms-bind-error is dispatched.

QUESTION: On the embedder side?"

Alain: the parent form

Steven: That was my feeling too.

<ebruchez> https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTML/Element/iframe

Erik: Makes sense.

"QUESTION: Which is better?

1. Events targeted to <control/> and <interface/> perform the same,

and so bubble up from the <control/> or <interface/> in the dispatching


therefore appearing in both forms.

2. The <interface/> and <control/> elements have magic so that if they are


the events neither bubble nor capture on the dispatching side.

3. We introduce a new action, say <signal/> with comparable attributes to


which causes a <dispatch/> to happen on the other side of the


so that the event only appears in the form being signalled to.

4. Something else?"

Steven: I think we agreed that 1. is not desirable.
… my gut feeling is that 3. is preferable.

Erik: I don't like 3.
… there are two sides. From the embedded form I have less of a problem. It is clear you want to dispatch an event to the outside.

Steven: I'm trying to find a way to specify it that would allow different implementations.

[Long discussion of implementation techniques, where the scribe was deeply involved]

Alain: We could use the <form/> element we already have.

Erik: I will write an email with some examples

ACTION: Erik to write an email proposing a method for events

<trackbot> Created ACTION-2327 - Write an email proposing a method for events [on Erik Bruchez - due 2022-12-09].

ACTION: Alain to write an email froposing the use of <form/>

<trackbot> Created ACTION-2328 - Write an email proposing the use of <form/> [on Alain Couthures - due 2022-12-09].


Summary of action items

  1. Steven to find out if iframe is deprecated.
  2. Erik to write an email proposing a method for events
  3. Alain to write an email froposing the use of <form/>
Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by scribe.perl version 196 (Thu Oct 27 17:06:44 2022 UTC).


Succeeded: s/;/'

Succeeded: s/knwo/know/

Succeeded: s/froposing/proposing

No scribenick or scribe found. Guessed: Steven

Maybe present: (https, QUESTION

All speakers: (https, Alain, Erik, QUESTION, Steven

Active on IRC: ebruchez, Steven