<scribe> scribe:Mark

<shawn> scribenick: MarkPalmer

Videos for How People With Disabilities Use the Web

Brent: FIrst thing is the closing sequence. Company we are working with gave Kevin a mockup example
... Idea is that when we get to end of video we have focus on one of the protagonists from the video - probably the last one
... As they are talking through the tagline their picture could fade into a montage of collage of all the protagonists from all of the videos
... Meant to represent the range of issues and making it accessible for all people
... Won't be as bright as the colour blocks in the mockup but that's what they are proposing.
... Any considerations for Kevin to bring back to them
... As we look at link for grid, don't focus on colours or how many are there. But that's kind of the concept.
... Can't remember exactly what the tagline is.
... What are your thoughts on that kind of ending>
... Want to hear if the group had any concerns with that?

Jade: How many people on end grid? All of the personas?

Kevin: Maybe 4 x 4?

Shawn: All main personas plus maybe some of the extras?

Shadi: They are trying to portray that this is one person but that there are many more. I like it. Good idea.

Jade: Looking at the example, it could be quite busy
... COGA might have something to say about how busy it is

Kevin: Probably the grid won't be displayed for long
... Will fade to the end plates fairly quickly

Shadi: Good point Kevin. Direction to company - it shouldn't be busy, nobody in the panel should be doing anything too distracting.

Kevin: Yes, that's the thinking. It's not meant to be static but not meant to be full on either.

<Zakim> shawn, you wanted to ask about static or movement

Kevin: A little bit of life but not massive amounts.

Shawn: To Jade's point - we want to convey that there is a bunch of people without giving the viewer a lot to process. Need to consider whether these should be moving or static. May be better to be static given how short a time they will be displayed.

Shadi: I would encourage that we leave that to the production company

Shawn: Again, Kevin, just to give the production company guidance that we would want to err on the side of boring

Kevin: They feel a bit of life reinforces the idea that these are real people

Jade: I think that the busyness of backgrounds could contribute to how overwhelming it is

Kevin: To Jade's point - the images will have a flat colour background
... Those colours are colourful but more muted than in the example
... the person will be the main focus

<shawn> [ /me's plants in the background left over from presentation yesterday. y'all usually don't get to see them, since they're usually under grow lights in the other side of my office where I can see them. :-]

Shadi: These are all backgrounds we'll already have seen in the videos? Is that correct?

Kevin: Yes

Shadi: That helps a bit. New stuff is more distracting.

Shawn: Any more points for Kevin to share with prod company?

Brent: When one person is up front, we want to keep the visual focus on the person and the peripheral on the idea of it being about more people
... Image should fade into the montage when the narrator says accessibility is about people.
... The timing of how they do it is key

<daniel-montalvo> +1

<shawn> +1 for general approach

<Jade> +1

Brent: If everyone is ok with this idea, can you do a +1 in IIRC?

+1

<Michele> +- for general approach

<shawn> shadi: +1

<Brent> +1

<Michele> +1

Names for User Stories]

Shawn: Any comments on the names beyond making them diverse?

<Michele> q

Shawn: Kevin, can we send around the proposal?

Michelle: I thought we went through names when we were going through scripts? Are we changing user story names?

Shawn: Some names changed because of the casting and we will change to match in the written content.

Video Gender Change

Shawn: Color blind person is now female.

Kevin: Comes with the caveat that we may not be able to change it.
... Actors have been selected and booked in, so we may not have scope to change things.

Shawn: Can you give background?

<Brent> Lee Story: https://wai-people-use-web-videos.netlify.app/people-use-web/videos/stories/lee/

Kevin: Lee, the original persona, was male
... Due to prevalance rate in caucasian men, this made sense.
... In order to maintain gender balance, they may have needed to change other persona genders.

Jade: Where did we get up to with they/them pronoun conversation?

Kevin: Internationalisation made this difficult due to languages which cannot represent non-binary pronouns. So we chose not to go down that route. E.g. Spanish

Shadi: I don't think it's a big problem. I don't think anyone will pick up on it (gender change). We are showing also the rarer demographic/disability combinations.

Shawn: Happy to let it go. I'd have been keener to have a conversation 6 months ago. Happy to accept now.

Shadi: We would probably have kept this position 6 months ago anyway.

Shawn: I have no position either way.

Brent: Kevin - any other things you needed?

Shawn: I know production company filming the scenes may not be something we all need to contribute to. We have time now if you want to get into anything with the video group.

Kevin: One of the challenges is firming up the voiceover.
... Voiceover actor booked for a limited time.
... They have limited time so we need to make sure the voiceover is as clean and ready as possible.
... Also, some props e.g Braille Display and Head Wand are hard to find.

Shadi: Have you tried ordering a mouth stick instead of a head stick?

Shawn: I'm aware that the narration is the trickiest part and is most likely to change. Can they hold off on that until later?

Kevin: No
... Post prod editing starts on Tuesday.
... We need to make sure we nail it down as much as possible.
... We don't want to make many tweaks anyway but voiceover work needs to be as tight as possible

Daniel: Would it help to send photos of Braille Displays I have?

Kevin: Unfortunately no

Shadi: I have friend I can see if they can lend one

Kevin: Waiting to see if RNIB can help
... Running out of people to try

<shawn> Mark: I've got a guy who might be able to help

Shawn: Basically, in terms of timing we need a refreshable display in London by Monday.

Brent: Review schedule - videos will be coming fast paced. We need to make comments quickly.
... Starting half an hour earlier and ending half an hour later on 1st december to get through that.

Shawn: We hoped that we didn't need 3 hours for 3 weeks but I'm hoping we won't need the last one.
... But wanted to block it out just in case.
... We need to talk about how we schedule that,
... Can people advise if they can't make this extra time commitment

Brent: I will provide updated link to teleconference collection page
... Any questions or comments?

ATAG Briefs

Shawn: Thanks for all the work on the videos
... Daniel has been working away on these and they are looking awesome. Need input on a few things today.
... A reminder that these have a very specific audience. For education - LMS vendor people.

<shawn> https://atag-briefs--wai-intro-atag.netlify.app/standards-guidelines/atag/education/

Shawn: Take a quick skim at the education one. In the agenda.
... Particularly why accessibility matters.
... So, with the learning management system one, what we tried is to succinctly say what will reach this audience. e.g. LMS is thinking about people buying their systems. Focussed on what will get their attention.

<shawn> https://atag-briefs--wai-intro-atag.netlify.app/standards-guidelines/atag/no-code/

Shawn: Lets go to the no code example
... What can we say to grab the attention of the no code product manager?
... Michelle and Jade, also Daniel had some ideas.

<Zakim> shawn, you wanted to ask about filming the interaction of the digital props

Shawn: Does this do it? Can we do it more succinctly?

Laura: First reading both sections they sound really good to me. Like the bold on accessibility as a procurement requirement.

Shawn: Michelle, I know you are particularly zoned in on the no code section

Michelle: The no code one is not quite what I had. I had something different that I wrote in social media.

Shawn: I don't know if these are eye catching enough.

Michelle: Make it clear that there are people who use your tool that need to make it accessible. No opinion beyond it working fine for me.

Shawn: Feels like the no code tools is in between a lot of edits and few edits.
... How do we say, this is the elevator pitch? What would we say? Can we make it more succinct?

Michelle: No code one looks like it's hitting the right points.
... Not sure we need to take on the fact that this needs to be the best. People who don't know accessibility won't find this page.
... Don't put the pressure on this to be the thing that brings ATAG to life.

Shawn: We don't expect people to find this themselves. This will be more of a push thing.

Michelle: I would go direct to my no code company and promote.

<shawn> By making your no-code tool accessible, you are helping website creators and maintainers who do not have the time, skills, or resources to address accessibility.

Shawn: I have a specific question. The second sentence - By making your no-code tool accessible, you are helping website creators and maintainers who do not have the time, skills, or resources to address accessibility - any reactions to that?
... I have a reaction and want to see if anyone has the same or a different reaction.

Kevin: I think that's a useful one
... A useful perspective because a lot of people create websites with no code solutions.

Daniel: With no code tools and small teams, the scope for remediation is reduced.

Michele: Colloquial phrase - it's tight but it's right
... Meaning I'm using your tool because I don't have the time or the resources.
... Illuminates the need for companies to take on the need for their users.

Shawn: How do we say that in a way that resonates with the vendor?
... Might vendor react badly to that or can we spin it so they realise that their tool will be more successful if it helps website creators with accessibility.
... How do we make the vendor realise it gives them competitive advantage

Laura: We need to express that more users will use their tool

Kevin: Part of it is that it's helping your customers keep on the right side of regulations. Other part is helping customers be nice. It's the right thing to do.

Laura: And reach more people. That's what the tool maker will want.

Brent: In order to do that, the people who use the tool also want to reach more people.

Laura: That's Wordpress's motivation for doing this.

Shawn: To be the best tool out there, do good with accessibility.

Laura: I've seen both good and bad. Confluence not been addressing accessibility but it seems to me that Wordpress has at least gone in the right direction.

Brent: It's like saying that your consumers want to reach large groups of people so you should want to reach a larger group of consumers.

Laura: Make your product easier to use for everyone

Kevin: Yes, maybe it is that
... You could qualify it by reminding them it will help them meet regulations

Shawn: More appealing is a good way of putting it.
... Lets keep brainstorming the big picture before we look at detailed wording.

<Michele> q

<kevin> Brainstorm: An accessible product is more useful by everyone. Help your customers stay on the right side of regulation, help them build a diverse workforce, help them make better tools

Jade: Is there a single sentence we could insert that defines the difference between ATAG and WCAG.
... Otherwise it looks like an addition rather than specific context.

Michele: Probably will flesh out in revisions - but making the tool accessible doesn't help make accessible sites, it helps disabled creators instead. We need to just be clear on that.

Jade: Maybe inserting the word "specific standards" might help.

<Zakim> shawn, you wanted to say "your reputation"? how to rise above

<Michele> Brainstorm: People with disabilities use your no-code tool to create and consume websites. Making the tool accessible ensures you are not excluding any potential customers. Then, by providing accessibility features, customers can create the accessible websites required for businesses and inclusive of wide audiences.

Shawn: Going back to what points we want to get across?
... Maybe again the idea that accessibility will impact reputation, sales etc
... How can we express to them what it will improve?

Michele: Obviously sales
... So tool is accessible means anyone can be your customer. Accessibility features mean your customer is compliant and isn't excluding their customers.

Shawn: We care but how much do they care?

Michele: They do care. Accessibility lawsuit could fall back on the no code vendor.

<kevin> +1 to Michele’s comment

Michele: Not a good look to be the tool provider that got a company sued.

Shawn: How do we succinctly say that though?

Michele: Depends on the tone you want to strike

<kevin> Brainstorm: Be a positive part of your customers accessibility journey

Shawn: Do you want to make that stronger or not?

Michele: The only hesitation is remembering that accessibility requirements will vary with the nature of the site e.g. blog v business. Not as much legal weight with the former.

Shawn: Daniel, what other questions? Any other input you want from folks now?

ATAG Brief Social Media First Section

<shawn> https://atag-briefs--wai-intro-atag.netlify.app/standards-guidelines/atag/social-media/

Shawn: So we are talking to a social media entity. What do we want to tell them?

Michele: Social media is all about your reputation

Laura: I agree with Michele. I like the tone of this.

Shawn: Is this good? Nail on the head?

Michele: Should we use the word "communities"?

Daniel: I still think people with disabilities needs to be used in the content.
... The first thing we should be saying is that people with disabilities will use the product.

Jade: We don't mention ATAG specifically. It's quite generic.

Shawn: That was deliberate

Kevin: The idea I had was to not go in with the standard too early. Focus on people first. Use case before solution.

Jane: We're encouraging people to read on.

Kevin: Indicate to them that here is the standard to help you.

Shawn: Historically we've found the reference to ATAG turns people off

<Michele> +1 to adding a line that previews ATAG in the summary (even if it doesn't say "ATAG")

Jade: In that case something is needed to make it hang together more.

Shawn: Also to remember that we want to get this done. It has a small but important audience.
... The other thing we tried to do is to make this so short and succinct and skimmable so we don't need to do that.
... Thanks for the input
... Did anyone listen to music and want to talk about it?

No code examples

<shawn> https://atag-briefs--wai-intro-atag.netlify.app/standards-guidelines/atag/no-code/#example-scenarios

Shawn: Any comments on these refined examples? Are these the right things to call out?

Michele: Seem fine to me. Nothing to add.

Kevin: I think Michele is right
... I agree

Shawn: OK Cool. Anything else before we say ready for final review
... I had some comments on the social media examples. I can work with Daniel on this.
... What's good enough to consider it done?

Work for this week

Brent: Reminder of ATAG stuff we just worked on. Video background music survey.

Video Background Music

<shawn> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/1/eowg-music-2022/results

Any comments on the music, add it to the survey results

Brent: Good way to check is listen to the music in a meeting in order to determine whether it's distracting.
... Are we intending to use the same song for each video?

Kevin: I will talk to Kartoffel but my understanding is yes

Shawn: Variety v Consistency

Jade: Ordinarily I'd not care which music but recently did a survey on hold music was enlightening.
... Maybe needs more time to consider.

Kevin: Comments on preferred type of music might be useful

Shawn: Michele would you be willing to reorder your comments in the survey?
... Kevin, what else do you need?

<Michele> (Not willing, for the record - lol)

Shawn: Take a little time to share any perspectives on specific things.

Brent: Recommend going back to watch perspectives videos, paying attention to music in the backgrounds

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Present: Laura, shawn, Shadi, Michele, Jade, Brent, MarkPalmer, kevin, Daniel
Found Scribe: Mark
Found ScribeNick: MarkPalmer
Found Date: 18 Nov 2022
People with action items: 

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