trackbot, start meeting

<trackbot> Meeting: Accessibility Education and Outreach Working Group (EOWG) Teleconference

<trackbot> Date: 04 November 2022

<scribe> Chair: Kris Anne

<scribe> Scribe: Sharron

ATAG Brief

<daniel-montalvo> https://atag-briefs--wai-intro-atag.netlify.app/standards-guidelines/atag/education/

Shawn: Thanks Jade for your input, Daniel has take a pass at incorporating it and a few of the rest of us have taken a pass. It is an updated break. We'll take a reading break. Rememeber the target audience is LMS producers, developers, managers, etc.
... still looking at tone and approach not word smithing.

Daniel: It was updated yesterday

Shawn: yes but not the agenda so no one knew.

<shawn> [Draft] Guidelines to Make Your LMS Accessible

<EricV> done

<Laura> +1 to structure

Shawn: High level structure still working?

+1

<kevin> +1

<kevin> Scribe+

<kevin> Scribe+ krisanne_

<krisanne_> scribe+

<krisanne_> Jade: the term instructional designer is only used in the US. Learning designer is more common in the UK.

<krisanne_> Shawn: Can we use both? Does it matter if we use both?

<krisanne_> Jade: I will look around to see in what context its used and see what's appropriate.

<krisanne_> ... the last persona, it needs to be a bit of a niche case. Director of a learning institute maybe?

<krisanne_> ... went for a director role so it would have management aspects for accessibility.

<krisanne_> Daniel: we tried to condense the 4 examples into 3. Would the director being the one that would be checking for accessibility? So if its smaller the director may be more involved.

<krisanne_> Jade: Director may not be the one doing the small aspects, but if they want the at a glance of what is happening. They may search for that as part of their role.

<krisanne_> Shawn: What example do we want to use and maybe what role? The third example should be about the tool encouraging accessible content.

<krisanne_> Shawn: First two examples are users with disabilities. The last examples should be about part B of ATAG. We wanted to highlight the tool helps you make your stuff accessible.

<krisanne_> Kevin: agree with Shawn. I think it should not be a rural school, not many children in rural school won't be using the technology that we want to use.

<krisanne_> Shawn: what example do we want to use? Is the current example about the chart ok?

<shawn> ATAG at a Glance https://www.w3.org/WAI/standards-guidelines/atag/glance/

<krisanne_> Kris Anne: would an image be more common?

<krisanne_> Jade: if you want to keep the chart, then change the place the person works - it could be an alternative school or professional development school.

<krisanne_> Shawn: so keep the chart and change the persona?

<krisanne_> Jade: change the children part to clients and change the persona line.

<krisanne_> Jade: Irina is a course director at an online professional training center.

<krisanne_> Shawn: wording we can change in Github.

<krisanne_> Daniel : sounds like an actionable change, so that's good.

<krisanne_> Shawn: Other things?

<krisanne_> Jade: in the first two personas we have learning content. in the third one, perhaps it could be an admin feel to it not a learning feel.

<krisanne_> Kevin: only potential issue is that steps away from Part B. Part B is about making the content accessible.

<krisanne_> Shawn: what if we made the middle one the administrator?

<krisanne_> Jade: Irina is a learning designer at a training center... in number two, Aroon can't format his class attendance lists.

<krisanne_> Daniel: follow up question, how can we make it more specific for the issue with formatting the list.

<krisanne_> Kevin: can't select students for the classes

<krisanne_> Shawn: something more compelling

<krisanne_> Shawn: Other questions or comments?

<krisanne_> Shawn: I have a question about the paragraphs under the personas. In general do they work?

<krisanne_> nods from the crowd on Zoom

<krisanne_> Shawn: Thoughts on the last section?

<krisanne_> Laura: It sounded good to me

<krisanne_> Kris Anne: we just need to make sure they match.

<krisanne_> Jade: Question about what the purpose of those three bullet points is.

<krisanne_> Shawn: purpose is to make the transition from the examples and here's how they're covered in ATAG.

<krisanne_> Jade: I suggest editing the first sentence : the examples from the personas above are covered in the following ways: or as follows:

<krisanne_> ... use personas not example.

<krisanne_> Laura: its a preview of what to expect in the standard

<krisanne_> Kris Anne: Are we providing links into ATAG?

<krisanne_> Shawn: We don't want to do that. We want them to go to the Overview or At A Glance.

<krisanne_> Kris Anne : the bracket makes it look like its going to be a link.

<krisanne_> Daniel: we could change the placement of the reference so it doesn't look like it should be a link.

<krisanne_> EricV: depends on what we are focusing on here. If you put the numbers it makes you think it shoudl be a link. Maybe take the numbers away.

<krisanne_> Shawn: maybe just say that ATAG says or ATAG covers

<krisanne_> Daniel: they are from ATAG.

<krisanne_> Shawn: Thank you everyone for your knowledge of this area.

<krisanne_> Eric: Top says Guidelines and the bottom says Standards. should keep the word the same.

<krisanne_> Shawn: ATAG is a guideline that is a standard

<krisanne_> ... is it ok to use both in two different places?

<krisanne_> EricV: we usually use the same terminology, but if its on purpose, i think its ok.

<krisanne_> Sarah: People want to know what they have to do so use Standard.

<krisanne_> ... Standards is what we want to compel people to do. Guidelines draws on people's experience as well. I think LMS wants Standards. Expert audiences may be ok with Guidelines.

<krisanne_> Shawn: Proposal to change Guidelines in the Heading to Standards.

<krisanne_> ... Standards to make your LMS Accessible.

<krisanne_> Daniel: when we explain the acronym, the word guidelines will remain.

<krisanne_> Shawn: Thanks all, we'll refine the next version for everyone to look at.

<krisanne_> Shawn: followed up on publishing, there is not many epub authoring tools. Most people use indesign and google docs and just export to epub. Doubtful it would be a target audience for the briefs.

<krisanne_> Daniel: there aren't tools, but there are plugins. could be out of scope for now, maybe in the future we could do something.

<krisanne_> Topic : ATAG Brief for No Code Website Tools

<krisanne_> Kevin: this is tools that help non-technical individuals create websites. Wordpress or WIX. WYSIWYG. Drag and Drop interefaces. You can get to code, but its usually content blocks.

<krisanne_> Sarah: I think it would be helpful if they did more badging of what they can do and how it helps. People don't go there knowing that what they create won't be accessible. Helping users make good decisions at a platform level.

<krisanne_> Shawn: look at ATAG at a glance and pick out examples.

<krisanne_> ... what makes good examples? If someone is new to this what things would resonate with them.

<krisanne_> Shawn: for the user with disabilities, i hear drag and drop is something we want to call out.

<krisanne_> ... do we wnat to do the simple alt or something more exciting

<krisanne_> Sarah: it might be better to have two about the makers with disabilities. there can be that tendency to put people with disabilities as users, not the creators. Two examples may be stronger than one.

<krisanne_> Kevin: Might argue a bit, i agree, but i wish they would just output accessible content. that would have a bigger impact.

<krisanne_> ... to have structured code be the output, not div soup.

<krisanne_> ... if they add a video, prompt to add captions. Active help.

<krisanne_> Kris Anne: we have to remember who the audience that uses the tools is too. People who just want a simple free website that they can manage themselves.

<krisanne_> Shawn: First example :: user with a disability, related to drag and drop.

<krisanne_> ... second example : tool output good structured content.

<krisanne_> ... third example: tool guides and educates users on accessibility

<krisanne_> Sarah: extra dimension - wonder about platforms when they have themes and what the platform may do for theme authors to promote accessibility.

<krisanne_> Shawn: do we want that to be a persona or a key point in the bottom section?

<krisanne_> Daniel: thank you for the input. I will use this to put something together.

ATAG Brief - social media

<krisanne_> Shawn: what do we want to say to the social media platforms?

<krisanne_> what examples do we want to use for them?

<krisanne_> Kevin: alt probably has more traction - captions or audio description?

<krisanne_> Sarah: is links super important? getting people to where they neeed to go?

<krisanne_> ... how the platform can ensure that when people post links they are perceivable and render links clearly.

<krisanne_> Daniel: Is it the links themselves that they have proper names?

<krisanne_> Sarah: yes, its that the links have the proper structure so people know where they are going.

<krisanne_> Kevin: thinking through how you use these platforms: there is no structure, its content and images, links or videos. there are considerations for all three of those.

<krisanne_> ... how do you support the user replying to a comment or reacting to a comment.

<krisanne_> ... how do you communicate the structure of the reactions and comments. Not just about the content, how do you make the platform more accessible.

<krisanne_> Sarah: issues around auto refreshing. when platforms change and the huge impact that have learned systems or work arounds.

<krisanne_> Daniel: I was thinking along the lines of the use case that I just want to follow this, but the content keeps updating and the auto refresh makes it hard to follow.

<krisanne_> Daniel: the ideas that people have thrown our are the ones i can move forward with.

<krisanne_> Shawn: fascinated with the auto update thing and they can go from accessible to inaccessible and lockign people out of their profiles.

<krisanne_> Shawn: it maybe interesting to try something like that.

<krisanne_> Shawn: any other parting guidance?

<krisanne_> ...open Github issues for any further thoughts on social media.

Authoring Tools List Submission Form

<shawn> https://wai-authoring-tools-list.netlify.app//tools-list/authoring/submit-a-tool/

<krisanne_> Kevin: Authoring Tools List and submission form we want to get live - one of the big changes we made is that we made it work, when you submit a tool it creates the Github ticket.

<krisanne_> ... also changed the styling of the form to align it to the other forms we've created recently.

<krisanne_> ... changes to the interface and removed fields for license and cost model. brought it more in line with the eval tools list and just said license and how much you will pay.

<krisanne_> ... some outstanding issues, but we will look at those.

<krisanne_> Shawn: some links will need to be added to ATAG.

<krisanne_> Kevin: that won't block the data collection.

<krisanne_> Shawn: Thank you everyone for doing the survey - everyone noted to move forward. Our user base for this is small, so we can polish it up after publication.

Videos

<krisanne_> Kevin: we have a video production partner now. Kartoffel is the production partner. As we know, very tight schedule. Still need feedback from the group, but the turn around time on feedback is going to be very tight.

<krisanne_> ... we will make sure the schedule is known well in advance to help with planning.

<krisanne_> ... next couple of weeks are pre-production. checking out location and selecting talent. We will be provided with options.

<krisanne_> ... we will need digital props for the filming. Such as website, or displays for a mobile phone. We need to create a fake mobile screen and fake website that doesn't zoom.

<krisanne_> ... we have one/two people who are interested in supporting the work. We have about 30 digital props needed. Anyone that has interaction design skills to mock up a high fidelity prototype.

<krisanne_> ... nothing that has to work but just has to look like the site or phone screen.

<krisanne_> ... if you know of someone on your team that can help, it would be great.

<krisanne_> ... need the props created in two weeks.

<krisanne_> Shawn: there is a link in the agenda that you can send to people who may be interested. But please don't post on social media publically.

<krisanne_> ... send to small networks or people you work with.

<shawn> scribe+ shawn

Work for the Week and the rest of 2022

<shawn> KAK: I'll update the links.

<shawn> ... Apprecaite if you can set aside time for EOWG work.

<shawn> ... Lots to get done by the end of the year.

This is scribe.perl Revision VERSION of 2020-12-31
Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/

Guessing input format: Irssi_ISO8601_Log_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Succeeded: s/prent+//
Succeeded: s/Work fot the Week and the rest of 2022/Work for the Week and the rest of 2022/
Present: Daniel, shawn, kevin, Laura, Sharron, krisanne_, Jade, EricV, Sarah
Found Scribe: Sharron
Inferring ScribeNick: Sharron
Found Date: 04 Nov 2022
People with action items: 

WARNING: IRC log location not specified!  (You can ignore this 
warning if you do not want the generated minutes to contain 
a link to the original IRC log.)