W3C

- DRAFT -

ACT Rules Community Group Teleconference

08 Sep 2022

Attendees

Present
Helen_, giacomo-petri, Jean-Yves, Wilco_
Regrets
Chair
SV_MEETING_CHAIR
Scribe
Helen_

Contents


<Jean-Yves> scribe: Helen_

Call for review https://github.com/act-rules/act-rules.github.io/issues/461

Jean-Yves: Need to amend the title to be more meaningful, and not need a new PR
... I just did something for adding the "logo" description to images in the examples

Assigned issues + help wanted https://github.com/act-rules/act-rules.github.io/issues?page=1&q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen

Jean-Yves: For me things are progressing, I just need reviews
... #1861 image button with an empty alt - you are in discussion with the TF for it Giacomo?

Giacomo-Petri: I have approvals but there are inconsistencies between browsers and I am waiting for responses

Jean-Yves: Good

Wilco: I should unassign some of these as have a lot
... some are in progress and some are not
... we are doing the ARIA 1.2 items but we are doing it in a batch?

Jean-Yves: I am asking the ARIA 1.2 WG for clarification

Helen: I will have a look and claim 1 bug

Update from the ACT Task Force https://github.com/w3c/wcag-act/pull/522/files

Wilco: 5 more rules that are going to AG-WG - potentially 6
... I opened a PR to add secondary requirements to rules to address issues to allow people to choose if they fail AAA or not

Jean-Yves: I had some questions on that - I added a comment on the rule Kathy is working on as I have concerns on that
... and there were questions on where it should map or not - so we will revisit that

Face to face ACT-Rules meeting https://github.com/act-rules/act-rules.github.io/issues/1847

Jean-Yves: This is happening!!!
... 6th and 7th of October in 1 month, and Helen added details to the PR: https://github.com/act-rules/act-rules.github.io/issues/1847
... bookings can be made if you want?

Wilco: This seems a bit short notice? Has it been announced?

Jean-Yves: We need to send a mail out on it and maybe change the date?
... we will check this with Carlos next week

Wilco: We need a sign up form for this!

Helen_: Yes!

Jean-Yves: Dietary needs, and meals etc.

Should test cases avoid Accessibility Support issues? https://github.com/act-rules/act-rules.github.io/issues/1913

Jean-Yves: a PR was added this summer due to a bug in FF and NVDA by Wilco
... and we should avoid accessibility support issues as it is a bug in their tools
... it prevents up from using multiple items, like title is not used as not well supported
... and it is creating a baseline in our support for browsers and AT
... this creates more issues if they fix the bug - so then the rule becomes redundant so should we remove it?

Wilco: I think the issue is less significant than you are suggesting - but if we have something in the support section then we should not have something that contradicts that?

Jean-Yves: We try to not point fingers in our rules, and then how do we know when we should check it if it gets fixed?
... We might be using bad practice that technically should work and limits what we can use in our examples
... it gets difficult to track as currently we do not track this so much - it is not impacting the rest of the rule
... I feel we need a stronger way to track these

Wilco: In the TF we review rules annually to make sure we check these
... We actively support it, and we have an issue assigned to me as a way to support this and to figure out why items are not supported so well
... the motivation comes from principles of WCAG itself - that you can only rely on items that is accessibility supported
... It is up to the tester to decide if it passes or fails
... it is known it might not fail in some cases, or pass - we are trying to cover this as otherwise it fails the main WCAG principles
... like on SVGs using the image role, we are using that as it fails WCAG due to FF and test methodolgies...

Jean-Yves: Very true - I can see the point here as it will fail if they test with Firefox
... It is good to know that the TF review the rules every year, but we do need better documentation on this - but where should it go?
... It would make it more problematic, but it goes against the grain

Wilco: We would look at ways to identify these cases, and add notes to the accessibility supports section

Jean-Yves: I know in Alpha we had a way to state if it passes in Chrome but failing in Firefox and we can say the pass/fail rates but we should not be pointing fingers like this

Wilco: I do not want this information in the rule as it is not best practice

Jean-Yves: We could just omit tests for those browsers - but we should have some warning and examples are for the developers to work well

Wilco: I can raise an issue for this
... in both cases we reduce coverage

Jean-Yves: So we can have notes on the examples known to fail on some browsers
... so this example - are we going to block this for the rule format update in 1.1?
... Giacomo - want to share?

Giacomo-Petri: Last time we said we didn't have a strong answer on this, and it was proposed we do not have strong feedback on this and will keep the rule as it is

Jean-Yves: We discussed this last meeting and when we have links with the same name but different context then it is a bad for everyone

Giacomo-Petri: I provided an example of this for the PR
... When you have a image with a poorly defined name, it will fail 1.1.1 but if they use the same name they are ambiguous in general

Helen: Would a link with some context that is hard to work out although it is bad for all worse for some?

Jean-Yves: No - as in the case Giacomo did, the background image gives context to a sighted user, but not a screen reader user.
... still not sure what to do with this
... It is programmatic context that is the important part.

Wilco: Is there a concrete question for AG here?

Jean-Yves: I don't think so... I feel confident of what should pass or fail but not sure if it is doable in the rule
... Can we do that kind of fix? Is it worth it if not applicable in life?
... Maybe to the TF but not AG
... We need a proper definition of context here

Wilco: What is not clear here?

Jean-Yves: Well it is not really useful and does it really happen in real life?

Giacomo: If there are 2 links with the same accessible name and different locations it does not fail 2.4.4 but 2.4.9

Jean-Yves: If the name is fine for one but not the other then it is still ok and not failing... but I need to do some research on this

Summary of Action Items

Summary of Resolutions

[End of minutes]

Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl version 1.200 (CVS log)
$Date: 2022/09/08 15:01:00 $

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Default Present: Helen_, giacomo-petri, Jean-Yves, Wilco_
Present: Helen_, giacomo-petri, Jean-Yves, Wilco_
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