<scribe> Scribe: Brent

Making Events Accessible

Kris Anne: Looking through final changes made to the draft resource.

<shawn> https://github.com/w3c/wai-presentations2all/issues/25#issuecomment-1216831932

scribe: Opening discussion on title.

Shawn: Many commented on the title naming issue. Came down to two options. In the issue most support is for Option #2, "Making Events Accessible -Checklist for meetings, conferences, training, and presentations that are remote/virtual, in-person, or hybrid"

<Github> https://github.com/w3c/wcag-eo/issues/2: Understanding 1.4.11 Non-Text Contrast (Level AA)

Estella: I posted the comment about remote vs. virtual. I was thinking maybe online could maybe be a solution. it was only a question.

Shawn: All three are used. Was looking to use the words that would be the most recognized and the most searched.

Estella: I am fine keeping it as it is now.

<Howard> +1

<estella> +1

<kevin> +1

<Laura> +1

<Michele> +1

<dmontalvo> +1

<BrianE> +1

RESOLUTION: Use title option #2, "Making Events Accessible -Checklist for meetings, conferences, training, and presentations that are remote/virtual, in-person, or hybrid"

<Github> https://github.com/w3c/wcag-eo/issues/2: Understanding 1.4.11 Non-Text Contrast (Level AA)

Shawn: We are pushing for people to read this resource before the TPAC group meetings so they follow guidance.
... Still need people to review. Have a survey to see if everyone is okay with this version being published, knowing that we can still update later.

<dmontalvo> Ideas on mic placement

Shawn: If anyone has looked through the changes before today, anything you want to discuss today?

Daniel: We say laptop microphones are not good. This is true, but would it be better to say to keep the microphone closer to your mouth for better sound clarity?
... Would mark that as Medium for this version. Would like to see it addressed if possible.

Kris Anne: Do we mention that presenters should check their microphone prior to presenting to be sure the sound quality is okay?

Michele: I don't remember seeing test-runs for digital set-up specifically.

<Zakim> estella, you wanted to say that in remote meetings/conferences usually presenters are invited to join some minutes before to test the setting.

Kris Anne: Feel it is important for test. I will add that in as an issue to be added later.

<estella> Indeed it is actually a good practice

Estella: Standard practice / good practice is to have presenters and facilitators log in 15 minutes early to test audio and video before start.

Shawn: Any more issues for discussion on this version?
... I will work on a tweak to the sound/microphone.
... We will also continue to work on this resource, so continue to add issues for Low or Later.

Kris Anne: Any other comments?

Shawn: There is one more I want to discuss today. Issue of PDF as a format.

<shawn> https://github.com/w3c/wai-presentations2all/issues/88

Shawn: Was hoping Sharron was here as we have the same viewpoint.

<kevin> +1

Shawn: Please read the GitHub issue then we can discuss.

<BrianE> +1

<krisanne> +1

<estella> +1

<MarkPalmer> +1

<Michele> +1

<Howard> +1

<Laura> +1

<Vicki> +1

<Michele> Oh wait - I'm -1 on how it's worded, sorry

<estella> Would it make sense to add a mention to EPUB?

Michele: About the wording... I wouldn't understand WHY it is not accessible, so wouldn't know what to do with that information.
... May need more info or clarity around it.

<estella> Agree with Michelle is not that pdf is not accessible but that content authors do not provided accessible

Kevin: Rather than mentioning specific formats, maybe mention the access problems and the formats that have those problems.
... Why it is important, what the formats are, other options that may work. Then you don't have to get into specifics of formates.

Daniel: Adding, even though you have a technically tagged PDF, a lot of it depends on the system and tools you are using.

Estella: As a solution, maybe, "if you are planning to add a PDF, also add an alternative format."
... How far do we want to get into this and are we trying to get rid of the use of it when it is the primary format used now.

Shawn: To Michele's point, this is a great opportunity to educate people of the access issues.

Estelle: This is not only about material that they provide on-site (during the event), but also what remains after on a website or sent out to participants.

Kris Anne: I think that this is a very important point to make. Until people realize that this is an issue they will continue not knowing and use the formats that don't work for everyone.

Kevin: PDFs are the most common format that is not fully accessible, but this comes back to inflexible formats that are the problem.

Michele: Agree, same with providing pictures and screenshots that are not flexible for accessing content.

Shawn: This is a useful direction. Hearing to add something about inflexible formats. Protected file where people cannot customize the text, such as a screenshot or PDF.
... There are resources that provide more education about this that we could point to.

Kevin: I agree it would be good to explain why these things are problems. Doesn't reflow, can't change the presentation of content, etc.

<Howard> +1 for a short explanation.

<shawn> Brent: We talk about "accessible PDFs" to screen readers users -- however, not accessible to all. Would it be helpful to include the disability? Not reflow, text customization, etc. Should we say who it impacts. Do we help people understand?

Daniel: Agree with Brent. It is not all about testing for screen reader. Let's talk about these things: There is more to accessibility than the screen reader accessibility, and testing should be wider than screen reader testing.

Laura: I encounter the same thinking as well.

<estella> +1 to Brent

<shawn> Brent: Include other issues, like protected formats, not just PDF. Perfect opportunity to include in our resources PDF issues.

Shawn: Sounds like everyone is moving towards a solution that explains the issue/barrier, mentioning disability types, then referencing the formats.
... Should we try and get wording in by the end of August?

Kris Anne: Everyone okay with giving this 15 minutes?

+1 to more time.

Shawn: Don't need it perfectly polished, but a good draft.
... Everyone feel free to write up some ideas and post in IRC.

<Howard> I just put some text in github

Shawn: Looking at what Howard and Kevin added to GitHub, what works, doesn't work, comments?

<shawn> --> Estella's point about alter formats (OK PDF as long as also accesible version

Michele: I agree with what people are stating... some things won't work, reasons why, and what to use. Agree with expanding the why so people can understand what the problem is.

Shawn: This is great input for me to take a pass at this text. Everyone okay with me taking a pass and having group look at it soon to try and include it in this version.
... Schedule some time early next week and we will send a draft for you to review and comment on.

Kris Anne: Any additional comments?

Videos

<shawn> scribe+ krisanne

<krisanne> Brent: Three video scripts were approved as the template to move to the next batch of scripts. Diverse Abilities and Barriers and Tools and Techniques coming up.

<krisanne> ... rough timeline is working over the next two weeks and push it to be reviewed by EO and various communities.

<krisanne> ... 7 scripts in early September. 2 batches.

<krisanne> ... if you know key people who would be great to review the scripts, please send them to Brent. We want to get lived experience to be as accurate as we can be.

<krisanne> ... or you can also give them access to the survey information to any W3C member.

<krisanne> ... surveys will likely be public for non-W3c members too.

<krisanne> ... we will have tight timelines because of working with the production companies.

<krisanne> Shawn: we can put the timeline on the wiki page and point people there to stay updated on it.

WCAG redesign

Shawn: Update on status. We worked on a redesign where the navigation and side bar is similar with ACT rules, ARIA Best Practices Guide, etc.

<shawn> https://github.com/w3c/wcag-redesign/blob/main/README.md

Shawn: Have been continueing to work on the code for these redesign updates. Michael Cooper is doing the code update for this. He has had diffuculty finding time due to other work responsibilities, but continues to work on this.
... We are trying to determine what is imporant to have complete before releasing the first iteration, knowing that we may not get back to more coding design for a while.
... Once published there will be a lot of people looking at it, so we want to be sure we can address the most important design features and functionality, but balance not doing too much to delay publication.
... Not many can step in to support because of the code used, XSLT.

<shawn> https://wai-wcag-redesign.netlify.app/understanding/

Shawn: If there is something that you would like to bring up and recommend as a change or issue, discuss with Shawn to see if this fits in the "do now" bucket, or "wait for later development" bucket.

(Shawn shows some current issues on screen)

Shawn: What is perspective of the group on what should be done before TPAC in September?

<shawn> Brent: Are there any that are on the bubble?

Shawn: Good question. Rephrase to, I can point out some things and ask the group if it should be fixed or let go for now.
... Sub-pages have the Page Content box, but the Index pages don't. Push for it or let it go.

Laura: I would add that now. I think that is important to have on Index pages as well.

Kris Anne: What would be in the Content box on the main index pages?

Shawn: POUR (principles) and the Guidelines.
... Won't be that big. [shows example of WCAG 2.1 At a Glance page].
... Another one to discuss is the About Understanding documents page. Needs some work.

Michele: Need some clarity of what we are looking at?

Shawn: There is an existing Understanding Document for each Guideline, Understanding, and Technique pages, not content, just the design.

Michelle: I have confustion when I see "not required to meet WCAG" at the top if the page. Also what is the scope of what we are looking at.

<estella> Sorry I have to leave. I will check the minutes.

Shawn: "Informative explanations, not required to meet WCAG" is a sentence that was added to the Understanding document a couple years ago.
... Some of the content is not showing right now, that is a bug that will be fixed.
... The design is the same source for 2.1 and 2.0

<krisanne> Brent: When they go to the understanding docs, they go to understand it better, refreshed look to make it easier for them to get the information.

<krisanne> ... so many people use it, do we need to really pay attention to the details to not turn people away.

Shawn: The version that we looked at last September was missing functionality like top navigation to go from previous to next. That has been added.
... So my assumption is that the current draft design has all the functionality of the old design.
... If we moved on publishing it right now, I believe all the functionality from the old version is in the new design.

Kevin: I believe the redesign is an improvement. Obviously any content missing is critical.
... The key focus is on the understanding doc pages and the new design is so much better that I don't think minor issues with CSS and other small bugs would not be to big an issue.

Michele: To me the redesign isn't changing much; color and position. Not much of a redesign. Just more of a visual change. This helps me understand the scope of what we are working on for these pages.
... See that it is more in-line with the W3C branding, etc.

Shawn: This will update the signposting of where this all is located/lives (W3C, etc.)
... If you see things that should be addressed sooner than later reach out to me so we can determine scope and feasibiltiy for our timeline.

<shawn> https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/apg/

Michele: Will there be an accessibility audit of these pages/template before published?

Shawn: Some of this design template has already been tested and published (example of the ARIA APG site).

Kevin: Also, with the new design we can imbed the footer content so that people can "help improve this page." So that issue can be sent in if they are major concerns for people.

Shawn: Thank you for your input.

Work for this Week

Kris Anne: The COGA Content Usable Survey is linked. Please try and look at that before the end of August.

Kris Anne: What's New in WCAG 2.2, there are links in the Work for this Week area. Please look them over.

Shawn: People really used the "What's New in 2.x" so we want to get this out soon. Please look over the draft and let me know if it works or anything should be changed. Welcome input.
... WCAG 2.2 Candidate Recommendation (CR) is coming. Trying to get it published by TPAC (September).

Kris Anne: Also the Approval to publish survey for Making Events Accessible. Complete by Tuesday, 30 August.

Kris Anne: Also look over the Outreach ideas and add any outreach that you are doing to the wiki page.

scribe: Other questions, comments?

Shawn: Also a reminder that we will have two wording suggestions that we will send out to you. If you could respond quickly to that that would be great.

Kris Anne: Thank you all, meeting adjourned.

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Default Present: MarkPalmer, shawn, Laura, Howard, Brent, Michele, Daniel, BrianE, Estella, krisanne, kevin
Present: MarkPalmer, shawn, Laura, Howard, Brent, Michele, Daniel, BrianE, Estella, krisanne, kevin
Found Scribe: Brent
Inferring ScribeNick: Brent
Found Date: 19 Aug 2022
People with action items: 

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