W3C

– DRAFT –
(MEETING TITLE)

18 August 2022

Attendees

Present
CharlesL, GeorgeK_, gpellegrino, JF, Naomi
Regrets
-
Chair
Georgek
Scribe
JF

Meeting minutes

<GeorgeK_> Date 18 August 2022

Accessibility Summary is SHOULD not MUST

GK: decision was made last week\

GK: Matt noted the official definition of the a11y-summary. Is consistent, but highlights subtleties and nuance

GK: Are we in agreement that this is one of our guiding principles for writing guidelines?

(No comments)

GK: will move forward with that assumptiong

the way we describe conformance has changed

it is now quite human readable - that helps us a lot

now if the conformance statement is displayed to user, we don't need to put that conformance summary into the accessibility summary

Naomi: it is hard to make a definitive statement

but in scenarios where there is little input from publishers... make a note "we are striving to..." - but publishers cannot make definitive statements

GK: agree with this. In terms of guidance from a11y summary - if it provides nuance...

whatever term you want to use: "we believe..." or "we strive to..."

Naomi: issue around number of languages authors invent

GK: Make sure we capture that in examples

and other verbage we create

Naomi: suggestion or recommendation

Gregoriao

Gregorio: this looks good - we should avoid duplication of data

if this is intended to display on the interface, we should not re-write this

CharlesL: Agree with gregorio. Also notes that Matt pointed out that we should NOT provide ally statements in multiple languagges

ONLy have the one langauge

CharlesL: may want to look at that more\

GK: In there now, and one of the things we want to retain

GK: a11y summary is only language of published content

GK: want to reference user-experience guide, with an expectation that the a11y metadata will be available to the end user

and that we do not "double up" the data

CL: agree. the older version of the spec ... URL. But it was not that readable, so we added it to the summary

but now that it is human readable, we can output that, and do not need to repeat in the summary

GK: we also need to revisit user experience guide

all things there related to conformance and the URL approach... we need to go back and address that. (i.e. there is not language changed needed)

ACTION: revisit user experience guide to align with recent changes to Accessibility 1.1 Spec - assign to Community Group

CL: make it an agenda item for next meeting

GK: IN the outline there are some principles identified

pointer to definition in Schema.org (guiding principle)

re-statement of things we expect to have been already expressed, not necessary to repeat in Summary

GK: example - if somebody has metadata "No accessibility hazards" the UX guide suggests that it be presented as No accessibility hazards

if accessibility mode 'textual' is present, it is announced as 'screen reader abled' [sic]

so no need to repeat in summary

so those are the principles - all the current stuff and then we look at what else is needed

Keep the things that remain valuable, remove the rest. Also the high-level considerations

GP: simpler if we call this "Accessibility Note" (conceptual) - the goal is to add human-readable information that augments the metadata

GK: in github repro now - the title is "Accessibility Summary guideline for ePub..."

and it is accessibility summary in Schema - it gets translated when it goes to Onix

Q: is it still call ed that there?

Yes

GK: so works there too - no need to change title

GP: the proposal was to only use that "name" as internal shorthand for this group/discussion

concern that "Summary" is misleading

JF: Understand the unfortunate concern - is this "fully baked"

GK: yes, took years to get into Schema.org

In abstract we could emphasize this is an augmentation

JF: echoes back understanding - suggests we DO speak to this in the abstract

GK: write in the 'template' that this is augmentation data

JF: sounds reasonable to me, but others?

Naomi: may be redundant and possibly overwhelming

but this may not JUST be augmentation, it may also include 'new' stuff that lacks definition @ Schema today

so that new stuff would need to be exposed somewhere (lacks controled vocab) - then this would be the right place too

GK: absolutely!

CL: not sure if we want to provide examples. have seen publishers who have added additional items to their ePub that went above and beyond

example: publisher had morse code, and added audio clip of the dots and dashes (above and beyond)

Naomi: working on crossword... there is a file format that can be downloaded into multiple crossword apps

(.puz) file extension

so making that file format available, and noting such in Accessibility Summary would be great

discussion around accessibility versus usability - do we want to expand the Accessibility Summary to capture 'usability' isses

Naomi: there is a gray line there

GK: we've discussed this in the past. ePub by its very nature is more accessible than other formats

not sure if everyone is aware that ePub *IS* more accessible than, say, PDF, so making these statements are beneficial

i.e. transformability (font resize and reflow) benefits all

GP: have concerns, but may want to defer to next call - example in file may be an issue

having examples that could be "copied and psted" may not be a good idea

VL: re no capability for multiple languages has been dropped - there may be a need if a book features multiple languages

CL: it would be difficult to tag that properly - there is usually a "primary language" even in multi-lang books

so publishers may 'reprint' if there is a need for books targeted to multiple languages

Q: to ask about multi-language

Namoi: notes that OPF file does not support multiple languages

may also be onerous on retailers - so decided that it is not ideal, but use-cases seem very small

GP: believes this problem with languages has already been resolved

GK: need to wrap this up now. Believes Avneesh plans on a call for next week.

But George and Charles will not be there. Suggests that this discussion wait until they return

GK: but would like to update the existing repro with what we agreed to here, and get the PR out for review

will mainly 'remove' things that are inappropriate, and then add some new draft text for review

+1 to Georges proposal

GK: next call to discuss this will be in 2 weeks (Sept.1)

Summary of action items

  1. revisit user experience guide to align with recent changes to Accessibility 1.1 Spec - assign to Community Group
Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by scribe.perl version 192 (Tue Jun 28 16:55:30 2022 UTC).

Diagnostics

Maybe present: CL, example, GK, GP, Gregorio, Namoi, Q, VL