W3C

- DRAFT -

ACT Rules Community Group Teleconference

28 Jul 2022

Attendees

Present
Helen_, giacomo-petri, Jean-Yves, CarlosD, dmontalvo, Philip, BobD
Regrets
Chair
SV_MEETING_CHAIR
Scribe
dmontalvo, CarlosD

Contents


<dmontalvo> scribe: dmontalvo

Call for review https://github.com/act-rules/act-rules.github.io/issues/461

Carlos: Nothing on CFR yet, but some approved PRs.
... Good idea to wait for September for these to go on CFR

JM: Good idea.

Carlos: W will wait until September for putting these inCFR

Assigned issues + help wanted https://github.com/act-rules/act-rules.github.io/issues?page=1&q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen

Carlos: I don't have any progress. But I have started to review some of these during today

JM: No progress, working on #1804 which is a little bit tricky technically
... I started something about showing the CSS and JavaScript in the rules, I am still looking into this

Helen: None at the moment

Daniel: One issue on rule HTML page title is descriptive

<giacomo-petri> #1861 input type image with empty alt attribute but not empty title

Giacomo: I have opened a ticket for browser vendors on my assigned PR

Carlos: If you have some time you can always pick up one of the "help wanted" issues and work on those :-)

Update from the ACT Task Force https://github.com/w3c/wcag-act/pull/522/files

<CarlosD> scribe: CarlosD

dmontalvo: ACT is working on updates to the ACT Rules Format
... there progress to the automation to get updates from the CG to the WAI website

Helen_: We are also addressing Urgent issues

<scribe> scribe: dmontalvo

<scribe> scribe: dmontalvo

Face to face ACT-Rules meeting https://github.com/act-rules/act-rules.github.io/issues/1847

Carlos: Based on feedback that we got we are proposing a hybrid meeting on October 6 and 7
... We have gotten Dublin. Thanks Helen for hosting us there
... As said above, we will be also hosting the meeting remotely via Zoom toallow remote participation
... I expect more news to come during September
... Proposed agenda. @@ZQ suggested we could host a session for newcomers
... for people woh might want to contribute to working on the CG website or the automation for the WAI website

Helen: It would be good to meet with our UX people

JM: I think it makes sense to have abroader session for people who are not yet in the CG. And also for sompe people who is interested in the rules and need to better understand them
... Also to organize Guinness Factory :-)

Helen: There is a hotel just down the road in Otpum offices

JM: It might be worth checking for accessible rooms there

Actioning feedback from Survey on iFrames https://github.com/act-rules/act-rules.github.io/pull/1855

Carlos: This was not on the agenda that you got in the email, sorry about that, but we need to have a look at this to unblock other things

Helen: I created a PR actioning some TF feedback
... A couple of Jean-Yves comments
... 1. No example has a tabindex negative different from -1

JM: I am fine with the PR. I think my comments would be improvements but happy to accept if noone else thinks they are important
... I think we can make the assumption more generic
... Currently the only way to remove something from tabindex is to use a negative tabindex value

Helen: I am leaving these comments open, not resolving them
... Giacomo, you may want to take these as a reference when you add examples in your related ones

JM: I just approved for people not to think that does not need a review because it has changes requested

Carlos: I think both of Jean-Yves suggestions make sense and I don't think they complicate the rule. These are objective definitions

JM: They are objective and completely unambiguous
... Negativee tabindex is well-known in the accessibility community, not so is top level and things like that

Helen: Maybe I should move it

JM: I can get to that tomorrow

Helen: If it's just moving things around, I can do

JM: I can do the move and the change in one go

Giacomo: Nowadays it is pretty frequent to see the input in different iframes for functional reasons. When you navigate the page by tabbing, you first need to navigate the frame and then the input. Not sure why the tabindex="-1" is a mechanism to take an element away from focus navigator

JM: The iframe creates a new document
... There is a very strong difference techincally when there are iframes than when they are ont

Giacomo: From the end-user it is not relevant, at least visually

Jean-Yves: I totally agree

Bob: You want to know that there is something that is taking you away form the content for security reasons

JM: It makes sense when it is an iframe that is including content from another website

Giacomo: Even if the payment gateway is on your site, the inputs need to still be out

Carlos: Created by Giacomo

Giacomo: About a specific scenario with an input drop within a label and the label pointing to a non-existing element
... And then an input with an accessible name calculated using an element that can be modified by the user
... W3C validaro is flagging issues for those
... We are not talking about the content model but about the syntax of the code to determine if 4.1.1 is failed
... The differences between our last conversation are those of parsing

JM: For cases that are not correct HTML and don't break 4.1.1 we need to decide what to do
... Plus browsers don't do the same for each of these cases

Carlos: Looking at these two examples what we are saying is that they are both passing examples because they don't break 4.1.1 because they don't break any of the syntactic rules

JM: These are cases that we've picked from the Accessible NAme Computation document
... They are not valid HTML but still passing 4.1.1, and the accessible name group is also having discussion about changing whatever needs to change to accomodate this
... Maybe we need to add to accessibilityi support that we don't pay attention to these examples because they are incorrect

Carlos: Probably for passed examples we want to show correct HTML

Giacomo: My first example is a real case

JM: I agree that we should stick to correct HTML
... If we have a strong opinion on whether this should pass or fail we should have an example. IF we don't have a strong opinion, probably a note will suffice

Bob: I know there is an update to the Accessible Name Computation algorythm

<CarlosD> scribe: CarlosD

giacomo-petri: this example behaves differently in different browsers

JM: if we have this as an example, which is not valid HTML, then it might be understood that one browser is correct and the other is wrong

giacomo-petri: should we ask who wrote the accessible name computation about this scenario?

<Jean-Yves> https://github.com/w3c/accname/issues/154

Jean-Yves: I believe they would reply that this is not valid HTML so we don't have to tell you how to compute the name

CarlosD: So we want to address this with a note in the rule and not have a strong position?

Jean-Yves: Yes

BobD: does this suggest we need examples for pass, fail and undefined?

Jean-Yves: We use support notes to identify when UA or AT does not follow specifications
... but in this issue, it's the author that does not follow the specification

giacomo-petri: what about having an assumption that developers are using valid html?

Jean-Yves: We could have a rule testing for writing correct code...

Summary of Action Items

Summary of Resolutions

[End of minutes]

Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl version 1.200 (CVS log)
$Date: 2022/07/28 15:12:14 $

Scribe.perl diagnostic output

[Delete this section before finalizing the minutes.]
This is scribe.perl Revision VERSION of 2020-12-31
Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/

Guessing input format: Irssi_ISO8601_Log_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Succeeded: s/zakim,, take up next//
Succeeded: s/Philip:/Bob:/
Succeeded: s/Philip:/Bob:/
Succeeded: s/Nowadays/Giacomo: Nowadays/
Succeeded: s/Bob: When you/When you/
Succeeded: s/Bob: From the end-user/Giacomo: From the end-user/
Succeeded: s/Philip:/Bob:/
Succeeded: s/Bob: Even if/Giacomo: Even if/
Succeeded: s/ont relevant/not relevant/
Default Present: Helen_, giacomo-petri, Jean-Yves, CarlosD, dmontalvo, Philip, BobD
Present: Helen_, giacomo-petri, Jean-Yves, CarlosD, dmontalvo, Philip, BobD
Found Scribe: dmontalvo
Inferring ScribeNick: dmontalvo
Found Scribe: CarlosD
Inferring ScribeNick: CarlosD
Found Scribe: dmontalvo
Inferring ScribeNick: dmontalvo
Found Scribe: dmontalvo
Inferring ScribeNick: dmontalvo
Found Scribe: CarlosD
Inferring ScribeNick: CarlosD
Scribes: dmontalvo, CarlosD
ScribeNicks: dmontalvo, CarlosD

WARNING: No meeting chair found!
You should specify the meeting chair like this:
<dbooth> Chair: dbooth


WARNING: No date found!  Assuming today.  (Hint: Specify
the W3C IRC log URL, and the date will be determined from that.)
Or specify the date like this:
<dbooth> Date: 12 Sep 2002

People with action items: 

WARNING: IRC log location not specified!  (You can ignore this 
warning if you do not want the generated minutes to contain 
a link to the original IRC log.)


[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]