<Lisa> Survey link (public): https://
<Lisa> sign up to scribe: https://
Check in with all sub-groups and COGA Action Items https://
docs.google.com/ document/ d/ 15HtPkkYx1CIl6bAwP2nsSZKhqTVbqcuMDRz5RmtmvXg/ edit
<Lisa> actions : https://
Lisa: We are keeping the updates short today
Shawn: Update on the test group
… Jennie and I met to organize, and get ready
… We are organizing the Google Drive folder
… Our next step is to review the documents
… Our future meetings
Lisa: I saw your requests. The only one doesn't work for the end of August
Shawn: OK, those should work
… We have tried to create some asynchronous work tasks
… Jennie and I will meet, review to be sure work is getting done
… Then we will meet with the group, task out the work
Lisa: Thank you, that sounds good
<Lisa> actions : https://
Lisa: We are starting with actions, trying to keep it brief
… One suggestion for subgroups: we are each meeting about once per month
… It would be great to meet sometimes as a follow on meeting mid month when your group can do it
… Not in the slot on Thursday
… This will help tasks move faster
… Mental health group?
… I don't think there are important updates
… We are finishing off the analysis - literary review. We want to finish by the beginning of October
… We need everyone to have their papers done by then.
… We had a great session at the conference
… Structural review for Content Usable has a meeting after this
<Lisa> Survey: https://
Rain: We are still trying to get the outreach on the form to go beyond
… I created an outreach spreadsheet
<Rain> Outreach spreadsheet: https://
Lisa: We have an agenda item on that topic
Rain: We have analytics from Roy we can start looking at
Lisa: well done on getting out the survey
… Clear Language
Julie: I am getting ready to send out a document to the team with a thought starter for test type for each of the patterns in Silver
… This was Rachael's recommendation
… For those that have a clear yes or no answer
… Then for patterns that are harder to test using this method
… What would be better suited for a procedural test or a protocol
… What did the organization that created the page - what did they do?
… What is their policy? Their process?
… Checking this as opposed to the output
… I will send out to the team some ideas to begin to think about
… When is the next Clear Language meeting?
… I cannot attend the meeting next week
Lisa: Can the Test Plan meet along with the Clear Language group?
Julie: This may be a good thing for the test plan group to debate
… This will help with the Clear Language for Silver
<kirkwood> +1 to both meeting
Lisa: I am asking if they want to move their meeting to August 4th?
Lisa: OK it will be mental health next week, then test plans the week of August 4th
… Thank you Shawn for your flexibility
Lisa: We have a document online that is a summary for what we think the research plan - outline
… 1st is background
… Creating a survey, providing the background
… Finding synergies is what I would like to report back to the larger group
… Ph.D. students can use this as part of their research
… Le had good ideas on working with people
… I need to take to the W3C coordination group how we do it, what's the right way to go about working with people doing their Ph.D's
… If people have other suggestions, that would be fantastic
… If you have any ideas on groups - we have great suggestions already.
… Recruiting people like that would be fantastic
… Have a look at the outline
… The foundational research will be really important
… Then the gap analysis will let us know what research is necessary
… The note can be after the second version of Content Usable
… Images subgroup
Jennie: no updates
Lisa: I think we should do subgroup updates every one week, and member updates on the opposite week
Lisa: And if we are meeting every 2 weeks, does that sound ok to the subgroup leaders
Lisa: OK, I am seeing agreement on that
… Rain is working on the APA issue 264
… Next week we will have something
… There is a draft from the WHO that I sent to the list
Lisa: We are not making a response as COGA
… If you want to make individual responses, we can discuss it next week
… Does that work?
Julie: I updated the COGA document, noting I had sent the side by side comparison to EO on July 12
… Kevin was on vacation, so we are waiting for a response
… I am still drafting our responses to EO's revised personal stories
… I will send that to the COGA team to review, before sending it to EO
Lisa: Thank you
… Do you want to update the action there?
… I think we will stop the actions there
… There are actions from the face to face - a lot is approaching people who might be doing literary reviews
… That we may want to reference, or use
… Anyone doing literary reviews for the mental health research group - reach out to Rain and myself if you have any questions
Draft from the who https://
www.research.net/ Deadline August 5 r/ WHOReportHealthEquityPWDs
<Lisa> close item 2
Reminder send the survey for UXR
Lisa: This survey needs to be sent out
Rain: We need people to send this out - you, everyone on this call
… Also communities that you work with
<Rain> Survey outreach tracker: https://
Rain: When we have the community group next week I will be asking them to share with their communities as well
… This spreadsheet (linked above) - when you send out to someone please share when you sent it, to whom you sent it
… There is a column for resending
… The deadline for responding to the survey is set to September 15th because a lot of people are away from their computer because of summer
… We should resend again in early September
… This will also helps us keep track of the communities we are sending to, and who has access to those communities
… This will help for future surveys
… We also have a blurb at the top in row 1
… You can copy and edit this to share the survey
… The direct link to the survey has a bit.ly short link
<Rain> Direct link to the survey: https://
Rain: I was advised by some that saw the bit.ly that some won't click on this link because they won't know where it is going
<kirkwood> could we put direct link in there a link to the survey in the outreach record ?
Rain: you can say that this links to a Google form
<kirkwood> oh ok thanks!
Rain: John K is asking if we can put a direct link , and yes, I will add it there as well
… We want to try to end the survey on September 15
… A number of people have shared on LinkedIn
… That only goes to the country you are in, or the people that follow you
… This is why we mostly have people responding from the US and Canada
… For those on the call not in the US and Canada - please post on your networks as well
… I would like to see over 200 responses - we have 46 now
Lisa: This is a great survey. If only Rain sends it out, there is a large number of Google responders
<Rain> Huge +1 to Lisa's comment. The results are very biased right now!
Rashmi: When I posted it on LinkedIn I got great feedback
… They want to provide feedback about the structure about the document. They want to connect personally
… Who should I connect them with?
Rain: It would be great if you could make that connection between me and those individuals, and share what they are sharing
Rain: As a group - there are some things that we had to do in the form that are not cognitively accessible because of how research is done in terms of disclosure
… Great feedback has been received
… If any of the feedback is around this, I can share with the group, and this is good feedback to get
Lisa: I am taking a note
… When we make feedback, we need a way to provide feedback that doesn't require writing at all
<Lisa> well done jenny
<julierawe> Way to go, Jenny!
<Rain> Thank you, Jennie! Please add to the outreach spreadsheet when you have the chance: https://
<julierawe> I mean Jennie :)
<ShawnT> +1 to julierawe
<Becca_Monteleone> For future surveys - I have some experience making both informed consent documents and data collection cogntiively accessible - at least on the academic research side.
Review resolutions from ftf. See https://
www.w3.org/ 2022/ 07/ 12-coga-minutes.html
Jennie: I shared the information about the survey in the Office of Accessibility newsletter - link is posted to the list. This went to 2481 subscribers
Lisa: I want to get to the functional review
… Let's get these done in 1 or 2 minutes
… The Face to Face was a great meeting
… The other thing we had - if people want to click on the minutes
… We had one resolution
… In Content Usable - this may be a structural issue
… People are confusing the name of the pattern with the what to do section
… The "what to do" was done to help direct people to what to do
… The names were chosen with lots of considerations
… Including do they fit in the nav bar at the side
… With that result, they are inaccurate
… We need to think about - is that ok? Do we need to rename the patterns?
… When we are doing things like using them in methods, in Silver
… Please don't use the name, use the pattern
… In Clear Language
… Avoid double negatives - the actual pattern is not to use double negatives to express a positive
… This helps with internationalization
… We haven't found a language for which this isn't true
… The resolution was
… When writing a pattern method
… And changing objective names, or the pattern to something else - that has to come back to the group, the bigger group
… They need a chance to say "hang on, I remember why we didn't do that in the 1st place"
… And they may say "we didn't do that because"...
… That's a resolution
… If people aren't happy with that, we can revisit it.
… It seems sensible to me
… As a consensus group, we need to bounce these things off of the group
Lisa: John are you on mute?
… John we will come back to you
Julie: I totally get the point about needing to be more specific about double negatives to express a positive
… In the current Content Usable, the name is Avoid...
Lisa: Yes, the names got edited.
… They were made to fit in the left hand navigation bar
… They are not accurate
… In the What to do section, they are accurate
… Don't rely on the pattern name
… Maybe we need to review these
… In the described by section - the description got ignored by the label
John K: That was my issue too
… and I just don't recall on this where there are, from the double negative perspective, it is standard to use them in one language
… I find it difficult that we are trying to use this
… There are other languages as well where this is very standard
Lisa: We weren't
… We had in the actual description of the pattern
… What we had was a description, then it got edited to fit as a label
… A second point I am taking away from this is that we need to go through the labels that are now the titles of the pattern
… We have to make sure that they are accurate. They don't have to be detailed
John K: that makes sense
Lisa: This was a first draft, we are going to make mistakes like that
… Let's make sure that you won't do the wrong thing by just reading the label
Julie: I did wonder why the pattern was not named "use a simple structure"
… This solves 2 problems: to say avoid double negatives, nested clauses - this sounds like different things
<kirkwood> “simple structure” works great
Julie: But the title actually does address this
Lisa: Sometimes these mistakes are crucial!
… It is only because of confusing the title name and the pattern - you are going to suggest the wrong thing
… I think we are going to have to add to our list
… Checking this
Rain: I want to clarify for the group the resolution
… This example from the Clear Language is why we have the resolution
… The resolution is that as we are working on things like the materials with the Clear Language we are trying to put into Silver
… We will have to, at times, change wording, break things up into different components from what maps to Making Content Usable
… The resolution: when these types of activities occur, before we do more work on a particular element after trying to make one of those changes
… That we bring those changes back to this group to verify that this group knows that change is accurate
… I want to be sure we don't focus on the one single example
… This is more of a process concern
… This will help with the Silver work, and the update to Content Usable
<julierawe> +1 to Rain
Rain: We will be updating language and we may risk these types of issues
Lisa: Thank you
… We have to look at these failures as fantastic - we can learn from them, make our next version clearer, and improve our process
… This will happen more and more if we don't address it
… Hopefully we will find issues with the process early
Who will be at tpac
Lisa: Who will be at TPAC?
Jennie: I am attending virtually - registration complete
<ShawnT> I'll be there! super excited!
<Rain> 0 at the moment, working on figuring out travel with my manager
<krisanne> I'm still up in the air about going in person.
Lisa: We may need someone to be the point person
… to work out logistics
<ShawnT> Can we keep this information in the action items document?
Lisa: If I don't get there, we may ask Shawn to be the point person
Finish functional needs review https://
docs.google.com/ document/ d/ 1ndRziXRfnyAgDaL8ctByQagDdM36H8QxV44lO3u8zgc/ edit#
Lisa: Yes, Shawn, copy it into the action items
Lisa: I think we are up to Learning, and we got agreements on learning
… Memory: short term or working memory is in the comments
… These are normally different things
<ShawnT> added a section
<ShawnT> ... in the document
Lisa: We felt that they missed out other things
… Are we correct with these comments?
<Lisa> any objections?
Lisa: Executive Function
… We thought that maybe some of these go into mental health
… Rain suggested self regulation and I think that is a better term
<kirkwood> I would have pacing in there
<Becca_Monteleone> +1 for regulation
Lisa: Any comments?
<Lisa> any objections?
John K: Pacing doesn't seem to be in the executive part
Lisa: We have it in the new section
John K: processing speed is one thing, but self pacing, which is executive function
… purposefully slowing things down, taking breaks, slowing the speed of things down
… This is an executive function skill
Lisa: I just added it
… Is everyone comfortable with that?
<Lisa> any objections?
Lisa: I will make a clean version at the side
… Mental health: we have emotional regulation
… triggers, mode
… mental health
… This needs more work
… I think we want to delay that
… Should we delay this?
John K: I have a difficult time with this one
… how to approach it in the construct
Lisa: This one we can maybe pass on to the mental health subgroup
… Cognitive and sensory we have asked for this to be removed
Lisa: Visual memory is usually part of memory. Rain is suggesting that some goes into language
Jennie: where will we post something like central auditory processing disorder
Lisa: I think this is less about where it is in the brain, and more about the functional needs
(discussion happened about what is missing by removing the longer list item)
(Lisa added some examples into the document)
<Lisa> Language (from different sources, such as auditory discriminatory, visual memory etc)
<Lisa> any objections?
Lisa: We are going to ask cognitive and sensory intersections to be removed
… Any objections?
… Next is new proposed buckets
… Any objectives?
John K: What does fluency mean in this case?
Jennie: I believe it may have been EA that asked for that to be there
Lisa: This ends the COGA main meeting
… Subgroup meeting happens next
<Rain> +1 to combining, sounds good!
<julierawe> For Le: https://
Structure Review For Content Useable and the Research Plan and Strategy
<Lisa> reserch plan
take up item 9
Google Drive Link for analytics: https://
we can only get 3 month data
rain: and data needs to be parsed.
rain: is there someone in this group who has talent with data of this type and pulling useful information out of it
also the time spent is useful
where they go to and come from is useful
people over 5 minuets, over ten muinits
shawn might be able to do some
rain: we need to decide first what we want
Lisa: make a Google Doc to collect our questions that we want to understand
… Put the information we want into a spreadsheet
write some macros
john is concerned about removing data. bounces are important
<ShawnT> +1 to convert them to excel
john to look at files
Spreadsheet to include the data and review: https://
we want to do this on a few pages
rain: our goal were pages are coming from, and going next
john: what is our goals?
rain: how they are using it
jouhn: you cant do that without cookies
rain: we have some within the site
<Zakim> Add, you wanted to questions, how many more the five miunets
lisa wants to know what issue papers and sections of document are being looked at
<ShawnT> Is there a tool that can parse this data?
close item 6
Lisa: research group has a survey, and we have questions
… can we do a duplicate of the survey and edit it?
Rain: yes, we can
lisa to make reserch survey
Lisa: will take an action to create the research survey
Rain: copied content useable structure survey to use as a starting point: https://
close item 7
the name of the folder is the page url
Lisa: we need to review the pattern names. Where do we collect these?
… should it be part of the structure?
… Also, would like someone to review and contrast the objectives. Are they as good as they can be?
rain: it is part of stucture
Rain: part of overall information architecture which is why it's part of structure
… and part of our next steps
Lisa: we also have our whole issues thing
… need to figure out which ones belong to structure, research, and a different subgroup
… also where do we collect feedback from the group? Do we have a page to collect it?
… rather than asking us to fill out the form?
<ShawnT> Issue Management in Google drive: https://
Julie: has questions that would like a platform to raise informally
Julie: I would like to open comments informaly
… then if there is reason we can make them more formal
rain: can we dedicate a call (can be subgroup call. Maybe more then 1
<kirkwood> to Rain’s suggestions to collect and discuss on call
Julie: is there a way in the doc to organize the comments?
julie: there is a way to organise your comment
Julie: such as starting the comment with the section that you are commenting on
… also to help us make sense of a wide variety of comments
maybe we can add tages to help catgrise it
Julie: by giving examples of how to give the markers
Lisa: think we all agree we want to have a Google Doc
… for informal collection
… with markers, tags
… and then have a conversation on a call or two
… at least two calls
… a thursday call that goes into the subgroup time
… that gives us two hours to discuss
<kirkwood> suggest having it as a standardized name on agenda
Julie: love that we will budget time for this, but nervous about eating into subgroup time too much
Julie: a lot of the conversation might be about little things
julie: a lot of them wwill be litle
some are big picture and some are litle
Julie: is there a forum for having a big picture discussion about the overall structure and giant sections
rain: we also get big picture as well
big picture first
Lisa: want to make sure we start with the big picture
but they will go back and forth
rain: there will be suggestion, on stucture and that can spring bourd it
were can we give positve feedback?
it is perfect for some people
Lisa: diffrent enry points?
rain: we need to anlaize who likes what
Lisa took on an item to do the survey
rain: next step is to parse the feedback
lisa: next steps add to https://
rain's next step: parse feedback and create high fidelity concepts for architecture shifts
Lisa: scedule the calls
John to look at data from roy
John K taking a look at the data from Roy and seeing what we can learn from that
Julie to take a look at the Google Doc for gathering feedback on Making Content Usable
Julie: currently called "suggested new content" -- should it be adjusted to also enable people to share changes, thoughts, etc.?
Lisa: also adding "questions we have about the document"
… which may lead to suggestions
Lisa: continue to add the types of things to the document, including what tags, etc.
Lisa: Julie, can you edit the document, and then I'll send to the group?
lisa: add to agenda?
Julie: yes, taking action to play with the document, then Lisa will add to the agenda