Meeting minutes
Ideographic spaces at the beginning or end of lines
https://
xfq: we discussed this before
xfq: I filed an issue against CSSWG and their feedback was to use special markup and CSS (white-space and line-break properties) without changing any default behavior of CSS
xfq: Are we satisfied?
Eric: OK
huijing: This situation is special
Zhengyu: Unicode behavior is inconsistent with Chinese requirements
xfq: yes, U+3000 is BA per UAX #14, and it suppresses breaks *before* the character
xfq: while U+3000 in Nuo tai suppresses breaks *after* the character
Eric: Are we going to describe this requirement in clreq?
huijing: we can add a note
xfq: If I remember correctly, there is no mention of ideographic spaces at all in the current clreq text
… If we add it, which section would be appropriate?
… § 3.1.4 Prohibition Rules for Line Start and Line End? Or a new section?
[Discuss the differences between spaces/spacing as content and spaces/spacing as style]
Eric: The behavior of the two (Nuo tai and religious classics) is not exactly the same
Zhengyu: § 3.1.4 is only about punctuation marks
Eric: I personally don't think we should put punctuations and spaces together
Zhengyu: Is there a similar need for Japanese?
xfq: https://
https://
Eric: ^ This example is related to punctuation
Eric: it is common in vertical writing mode, rare in horizontal writing mode
Zhengyu: This is more related to punctuation marks.
Eric: we can add a new section in § 3.4 Paragraph Adjustment Rules
Eric: i.e., § 3.4.5
Bobby: sounds good to me
Eric: can you work on it, Zhengyu?
Zhengyu: I don't think it's a "paragraph adjustment rule"
… We should describe the composition rules of these two cases first
… then we say that these rules can be implemented with full-width spaces
… then we describe the behaviour when they are implemented with full-width spaces
… what about putting it in § 3.5 Line Adjustment?
[Discuss whether 3.4 or 3.5 is more suitable]
Eric: OK, so we can put it into § 3.5
https://
xfq: there's a section called § 3.7 Other Rules of Japanese Typesetting in jlreq
huijing: miscellaneous
xfq: we don't have this section in clreq
Zhengyu: § 3.5 Line Adjustment in clreq corresponds to § 3.8 Line Adjustment in jlreq
huijing: we don't have § 3.4 Inline Cutting Note (Warichu) and § 3.6 Tab Setting
Eric: we can add a section called Other Rules
Eric: It is almost impossible to see Nuo tai now in mainland China
Bobby: Taiwan's official documents no longer need it either
Bobby: But you can still find it in letters
[Discuss the arrangement of sections]
Eric: can you work on it, Zhengyu?
Zhengyu: OK
Go through the pull request list
https://
https://github.com/w3c/clreq/pull/457
xfq: I added a new section to our editorial guidelines, called Rules for Punctuation
Eric: looks good to me
xfq: I'll merge it then
https://github.com/w3c/clreq/pull/461
xfq: both #459 and #461 solves the italics issue
huijing: I only noticed #459 after I sent #461
huijing: I think the selector in #459 is too specific
… if we merge #461, we can close #459
… any other punctuation marks I should include in the unicode range for the punctuations?
xfq: U+2E3A TWO-EM DASH [⸺]
xfq: U+2014 EM DASH [—]
xfq: U+2013 EN DASH [–]
xfq: U+2026 HORIZONTAL ELLIPSIS […]
xfq: U+00B7 MIDDLE DOT [·]
Eric: U+007E TILDE [~]
Eric: U+002F SOLIDUS [/]
Zhengyu: if we add -apple-system and BlinkMacSystemFont to the font stack, we should also add system-ui
… because system-ui is standardized in css-fonts
https://
xfq: I'm afraid some users will have problems described in https://
[Discss the issue in the article]
Zhengyu: This article is old, Edge now uses the Blink engine
huijing: Let's not add system-ui for now
xfq: agreed
… see also https://
huijing: I'll update the PR
https://github.com/w3c/clreq/issues/452
Eric: we should unify the usage
Eric: we should add the space
Eric: the question is which code point we should use
[Discuss which code point to use]
xfq: let's use U+00A0 NO-BREAK SPACE
xfq: we can also mention it in https://
xfq: Would you please send a PR, Zhengyu?
Zhengyu: OK
Some text emphasis marks are too far from their base text
Bobby: Under Safari, the emphasis marks are too far from their base text for some Japanese and Chinese fonts
Eric: This is a question of whether the rendering looks good or not
Bobby: another issue is that some emphasis marks are too small, like the one in hiragino sans, it's almost invisible
https://
The filled circle is U+25CF '●'
Eric: in Adobe InDesign, you can adjust the size and distance of the emphasis marks
Bobby: On the web, this is font dependent and cannot be customized using CSS
[Discuss the requirements of adjusting the size and distance of interlinear punctuations]
Eric: We should elaborate on interlinear punctuations in the clreq document
https://
Zhengyu: Ideally, interlinear punctuations and ruby should not affect line spacing
… but we need to consider whether the line spacing needs to be adjusted when the line spacing is small
Eric: This is a special case
Zhengyu: There are more interlinear punctuations in ancient books
Eric: The processing method is the same
Eric: I'll draft some text in a new issue
Next teleconference time
June 14 (Tuesday), 19:00-20:00 (UTC+8)