W3C

Accessibility Conformance Testing Teleconference

07 Apr 2022

Attendees

Present
Helen, kathy, Wilco, trevor, Will_C, thbrunet
Regrets
Chair
Wilco
Scribe
dmontalvo

Contents


<scribe> scribe: dmontalvo

ACT rules sheet and Survey Results

Helen: No objections made, I will be merging mine after the meeting

Tom: I had two PRs open. I have resolved a couple of comment, still more to do

Kathy: I need to work on the audio ones

Open ACT pull requests

Wilco: I have a bunch of them. Tweaks to existing examples, I would like some review for
... #1827 Daniel and Will
... Form label description tweaks #1826, Will and Helen
... #1825 Kathy and Trevor also approved by Jean-Yves

s/form label/form field label/

scribe: Update to meta view port rule I need to update it a bit
... Carlos added a note to the "Button has accessible name" rule 1821, Daniel and I are assigned for review
... 1820 and 1819 Tom has some more here
... 1818, Jean-Yves, that's Daniel and me again for review on this
... Some changes requested on the draft ones

Meeting at TPAC?

Wilco: I will probably attending TPAC, September 11 - 16. Is anyone planning to attend? Would we want to meet there as a group?

Kathy: If we do have a meeting I would try ot request to go

Daniel: Same as Kathy

Wilco: We are working on 1.1 and many rules to review. I think there is going to be plenty to do if we wanted to

Helen: Just allowed to travel internationally once a year, difficult for me

Trevor: Not sure if I would be able to travel

Tom: Not sure either

Wilco: Sounds like we are leaning towards a "no"
... Potentially we may want to have a CG meeting, that was an annual meeting before Covid

Daniel: Maybe we need to go hybrid

Wilco: Not a fan of that

Daniel: Me neither

Wilco: It would be like setting half day aside for a meeting, pretty similar to what we are doing now but just an hour a week
... Let's come back to it next week. IF two thirds of the group don't meet, there is probably no point for doing that

Kathy: Is CG included?

Wilco: Probably not.

Kathy: I like the idea of meeting with the CG if I had to chose

Update from the WAI website (implementations!)

Wilco: I have been working on getting the implementation data in the WAI website

<Wilco> https://deploy-preview-95--wai-wcag-act-rules.netlify.app/standards-guidelines/act/implementations/

Wilco: Main things to focus on: How the content is organized, where these things should go, how structure looks like
... It is using a rewrite implementation mapping tool that I rewrote that understand the mapping and tracks coverage of what we were doing before
... Main page is the list of implementations, there will be a separate list for test methodologies and for automated tools
... There might be a separate one for hybrid also
... Deque has one, SiteImprove may have another as well
... Under each of those I am listing a table with the implementation, name, and versions number, as well as how many complete rules are available for that
... These are currently the number of proposed rules that are taken into account
... We have approved and proposed versions, which may be different in some aspects from one another
... The detail for each shows the completing and partial implementation ofr each of the rules

Will: How are we measuring how true these are?

Wilco: Basing on reports. They report "passed", "Failed", "Inapplicable", or "Can't tell"
... After that table I include the set of ACT Rules and their status for that particular implementation
... These are sorted alphabetically
... Then in the columns and rows we have examples, procedures, and outcomes

Helen: Would it be possible to have a bit of imagery and colors to complement the text?

Wilco: We can do that, yes

Helen: And possibly a sort for the columns

Wilco: That would be a bit more complicated
... NOt sure if W3C has such a component

Helen: Table are difficult in general

Wilco: Agree. Not sure if each of these tables should be its own page

Helen: Probably a tabbed interface

Daniel: Not sure about tab interfaces, not users are familiar with those

Wilco: That's design. Now, how the information is organized? Would this make sense?
... Is this something you could use?

Daniel: Text "WCAG A - AAA" a bit ambiguous

Wilco: I'll try to keep it small so that we have enough space to put that
... I thought it was important to give context to the completed rules number
... It helps understand why some numbers are higher than others
... To clarify that higher numbers don't mean better tools

Helen: Sounds good

Wilco: What about numbers?

Tom: I would be interested in seeing approved versus proposed rules

Wilco: I don't know if I would want it. The approve ones are more authoritative, it would be more insightful to see the approved ones

Kathy: That would be just a very low number

Wilco: I would propose to stick to proposed while this is in draft but move to approved ones when we get out of draft

Kathy: Would approved rules show the implementations?

Wilco: I just don't have that dat yet, that's one of the next things we will be working on

Daniel: How we should ink to the standards?

Wilco: Probably somewhere on the page but not in the tables

Tom: Probably we want to show both as we are working on changes to some of them

Wilco: The table got a bit more complicated with the two, but I can try and bring that back to the group

Helen: Do each of these links go to the rule or straight to the tool?
... We may want to make it clear that it does not go to a third party site but actually to the detailed page with each of the implementation

Wilco: I think I know what you mean. The CG website has "View report" links instead of the tool name

Helen: Still it is not clear where they go to, as there is only the tool name
... I could add a report column
... You could have links to the details in the numbers for approved and proposed ones

Tom: If you want other tool vendors to get on board, they might want to focus on the approved rules

Wilco: If you just show approved ones they are likely to be interested only on those. IF we show both, that may help them implement other rules as well
... I feel the approved ones are the more important ones

Kathy: In the summary at the top we may want to provide an explanation of what each of these rows and columns communicate

Wilco: Agree that this needs more explanation

Kathy: I did like the CG table that listed the vendor for the tools. Maybe some people may know the name of the engine but some may not be familiar
... MAybe Company (Tool name)

Wilco: I could try that
... But some of these are really long

Hellen: I think it works better in the implementation page

Wilco: Some are most well-known by others

Will: IF you are going this deep, you probably know more than we are giving credit to
... If someone comes here, they will probably know what they are looking for

Daniel: +1 to that

Wilco: Let's not do it, if an org wants it, they should put it in the implementations name

Helen: Difficult from the WAI CSS perspective that is minimalist

Survey response: meta element has no refresh delay

Wilco: Looks like we are going to have to update this rule
... Expectation needs to be simpler, by Trevor

Trevor: In the input aspects adn applicability we are repeating some info that is also in expectations, probably we need to take it out of the expectations

Wilco: Update expectations as Trevor suggest
... Kathy says No real accessibility failure if a blank page is refreshed
... That make sense. Should we have a clock example that updates once a minute?

Kathy: Just put some text in failed example 1

Wilco: I agree
... Kathy says 2.2.3should be listed in the requirements mapping as it is in the background
... Does this mean it needs to be an accessibility requirements mapping?
... I think you are right, not sure if we should include those
... It is not a thing where you need to request more time to do something
... This is about not moving the focus, not about requesting more time. I think you are right and we should remove these references

Helen: Sounds good

Wilco: Tom, refresh 0 redirects

Tom: 0 or >20 is fine, that's what the rule says
... IF you have 0 you are going to be refreshing the page infinitely
... If you have 0 the way the rule is written means that would pass

Wilco: I know Mark brought this up in the past. At the time wee said yes, that is not great but is that a WCAG failure instead?

Tom: With and AT you can access the page

Wilco: Nobody will

Tom: We may want to add a paragraphs saying that even though it passes, this is not realistic

Wilco: I am inclined to let this go. Do you think we need to make a change?

Tom: I am fine either way. We separate out the rules to see if there is a URL in the redirect and another that handles the redirect condition

Wilco: If we cover that we would need a separate rule, one for timing and one for target
... Do we want to put anything in the background?

Agreement to add a note in the background

Wilco: Are any of these blockers?

Trevor: I would say yes

WilcoP: I think so to

<Will_C> Have to drop to catch meeting

WilcoP: We need a liaison.

Will: I can take this on

Summary of Action Items

Summary of Resolutions

[End of minutes]

Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl version 1.200 (CVS log)
$Date: 2022/04/07 14:53:45 $