Cognitive and Learning Disabilities Accessibility Task Force Teleconference

10 Feb 2022


Rain, Jennie, ShawnT, julierawe, JohnRochford, lisas, kirkwood, Rachael, 1
Albert, Kris Anne, David Swallow, Justine


EA present

<Rain> scribe: EA

<Jennie> *Apologies I will have to drop at 5 before the hour

Raine asked if there were any updates...

<Jennie> *I find you very friendly, Rain

Updates before discussion about Mobile task force content to be discussed

Check in with all sub-groups and action requests - https://docs.google.com/document/d/15HtPkkYx1CIl6bAwP2nsSZKhqTVbqcuMDRz5RmtmvXg/edit

<Rain> EA updates - trying to help with the Easy Language document, received messages that they are resolved

Janine is not present but the work statement is going to receive further updates next Tues - so more updates will be available next Thursday.

Jennie updated on guardianships - ready to present information to coga - imags subgroup has emails from Steve - setting times when available to meet concerning updates from designer

Designer is going to provide a sample set to go throught the document, logos and other symbols received feedback so more info will be coming

<JohnRochford> I can only listen.

Jennie and John K confirmed happy that guardianship ready for next Thursday

Julie confirmed that she had liaised with a colleague in Germany about their work on easy language via Github. 2nd update was about an easier to manage document to showcase examples of what has been sent through for easy language todate. May be hard to include screen shots in a spread sheet also not always accessible so may depend on URL links

Next step is to build a google form for easier access to easy language content

Rain clarified that there is a protocol for engaging with external groups but not yet heard back from Michael

Rachael is following up with Michael to find out more about the protocol after the meeting.

Rain is also going to look into the image options for the google form but as Lisa pointed out that this format is not always easy for people to use to further investigations needed and Rain also has other options she will share#

John K was also in contact with US plain language group and he wondered if there had been any outreach to them again.

Rain is putting on her and Lisa's list of to dos... John K will follow up when he hears from them

Lisa mentioned her co-ordination calls but had no further updates

<Rain> EA - concerned that there are three arrows going in different directions, rather than a typical breadcrumb trail

<Jennie> +1 to EA - good point!

<Rain> ... Eye immediately went there where there should be a breadcrumb

<Rain> ... Finding this confusing because saw arrows going backgwards

<Jennie> Mine is about that

Steve shared his screen to show the outcomes of the feedback received last week. There was confusion between inter page and page navigation. Now has a side bar and a top menu bar

Lisa mentioned the need to have a constant breadcrumb trail - discussion about full orientation then seeing the pattern as separate - as a box that hangs to the right

<ShawnT> +1 to Jennie comment

<ShawnT> -q

Jennie felt that the use of colour and space may help to make the breadcrumb trail stand out more. Patterns in a different colour and clarify objective of the components

John K agreed and Jennie added that there is a need to be cautious when adding a box to avoid it looking as a button

<Rain> +1 to Julie's comment especially when thinking about what happens when people zoom in, so that they don't lose context

Julie asked if the box would look the same for each pattern page but she misses the way you could see which pattern your were in and then you could see what the other patterns were - it was easy to see the other ojectives with a side bar box.

Lisa mentioned that user information may be the wrong name - should be user stories etc.

John K said that we really need a quick way to see what the next or previous pattern really is as it is hard to know what they would be - need to see all of them somewhere.

Lisa mentioned a button that says 'see all patterns' or something similar - John K agreed that would be good.

<ShawnT> What are those icons in the breadcrumbs for?

Shawn will discuss with Steve how the design can appear in terms of overall look and feel elsewhere on W3C WAI

[Rachael] Update from AG and what’s coming up in surveys

<Jennie> Left vs right distinction can be difficult without words to clarify

Shawn T also was concerned about the icons and the way they have not been defined - issues around how they are seen - need to check specifications for this

<Rachael> https://rawgit.com/w3c/silver/status-indicators-new/guidelines/index.html#text-alternatives

Rachael discussed how upcoming level markings / placeholder recommendations - with example changes can be seen in the link above

Jennie said that the questions will be in the survey. Rachael confirmed that feedback is appreciated

Feedback to mobile taskforce seen in google document above

Rain mentioned that there were 2 different documents - one about mobile device features - which are important to accessibility. The second document is about mobile constraints.

The coga taskforce has provided some feedback and Rain went through the main points

Lisa commented that the spreadsheet does not have some of the items that are in content usable - such as a need for back button, alarm functions and the need to personalise items

examples such as Google assist, action blocks, personalisation of the home screen, set reminders - personalise settings such as GPS staying ontop. Allow for someone to rely on mobile - sees it as a whole project to go through as not really seen through the eyes of someone with cognitive difficulties.

More adaptations for individual apps and between apps such as copy and paste etc.

Lisa really felt there was a lot more that had been missed so really wanted more to be considered - not sure this is our job as they are the mobile taskforce

Rain suggested she would carry forward the user needs in content usable and Lisa added how these features are used in different ways by people with cognitive impairments as well as thinking about the translatons etc

ShawnT liked the data but also wanted to add items such as text to speech and there is a need to consider the SDKs for accessibility that are available such as making text selectable etc.

Need to separate text to speech and screen reading but also need to include the personalisation across apps not just those for the operating system#

Rain mentioned how we balance security as well as giving the level of access required

<ShawnT> [Accessibility on iOS - Apple Developer](https://developer.apple.com/accessibility/ios/)

Jennie also mentioned two components about security one about biometrics and log in due to not having the capacity to use certain components

<ShawnT> [Build more accessible apps  |  Android Developers](https://developer.android.com/guide/topics/ui/accessibility)

The second issue is around where components for accessibility features and security for the data that is stored. Need to consider not just where the app sits but also where the data is stored.

John K agreed with what was said but was not sure how it can be addressed security wise... need to understand the repercussions. Need to find a strategic way to work around the blockers - John said he was happy to help with this conundrum

<Jennie> Apologies - have to drop. Have a good week!

ShawnT also keen to find a way around the problem and Lisa mentioned the W3C specification to make optimum security and accessibility.

<Rain> Constraints document: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1w17lC7HOT05cIE4tVwcWAgb91bVlWnBAfB97wq7JKTQ/edit?pli=1#gid=0

Rain included the constraints spreadsheet where the disability is mentioned.

<kirkwood> +1

<ShawnT> +1

<julierawe> +1

Rain suggested that perhaps one should think about the abilities rather than the disabilities - Rain requested that we share the notes we have made and to invite the mobile task force to join us when completed


No concerns from EA

<lisas> +1

Subgroup meeting (11am-Noon ET): Review of EO content - https://docs.google.com/document/d/12m6eCwOSA8M_un0yRI6rHw8Gy9LzrAi6CGR7xUJ1CEA/edit

<Rain> our teleconference thread: https://www.w3.org/2017/08/telecon-info_coga

<lisas> for shawn https://www.w3.org/TR/webauthn-2/

<ShawnT> Thanks lisas

<Rain> For some reason our meeting was ended, but here is the link to rejoin: https://www.w3.org/2017/08/telecon-info_coga

<Rain> For anyone staying for review of EO content

<Rain> Document that we are looking at for this conversation: https://docs.google.com/document/d/12m6eCwOSA8M_un0yRI6rHw8Gy9LzrAi6CGR7xUJ1CEA/edit

<ShawnT> I need access

<julierawe> I don't have access to the google doc?

<Rain> Please try again, access updated!

<julierawe> I just re-joined the Zoom

<kirkwood> “blair often need assistance” to overcome barriers should be the type of language

<ShawnT> +1 kirkwood

<Rain> Scribe note: we are keeping our notes in the document itself

<ShawnT> Noise cancelling headphones

<kirkwood> yes can stay on for 10

<lisas> https://docs.google.com/document/d/19hM0yrnniybRkkLcNqMtX-W-dy5CJ2IIxKY44rpMFWs/edit#heading=h.oyotggfdmu1f

<lisas> julie is taking a rewite of lisas content to make it more similar to eo pages

<Rain> rrsagend, make minutes

Summary of Action Items

Summary of Resolutions

[End of minutes]

Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl version 1.200 (CVS log)
$Date: 2022/02/10 17:34:14 $

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Default Present: Rain, Jennie, ShawnT, julierawe, JohnRochford, lisas, kirkwood, Rachael, 1
Present: Rain, Jennie, ShawnT, julierawe, JohnRochford, lisas, kirkwood, Rachael, 1
Regrets: Albert, Kris Anne, David Swallow, Justine
Found Scribe: EA
Inferring ScribeNick: EA
Found Date: 10 Feb 2022
People with action items: 

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