IRC log of rqtf on 2022-02-09

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:33:56 [RRSAgent]

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logging to https://www.w3.org/2022/02/09-rqtf-irc

13:33:58 [trackbot]

RRSAgent, make logs public

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13:34:00 [trackbot]

Meeting: Accessible Platform Architectures Working Group Teleconference

13:34:00 [trackbot]

Date: 09 February 2022

13:34:10 [jasonjgw]

agenda+ Inaccessibility of CAPTCHA.

13:34:10 [jasonjgw]

agenda+ Synchronization Accessibility User Requirements.

13:34:10 [jasonjgw]

agenda+ Accessibility of Remote Meetings.

13:34:10 [jasonjgw]

agenda+ Natural Language Interface Accessibility User Requirements.

13:34:32 [jasonjgw]

zakim, list agenda

13:34:32 [Zakim]

I see 4 items remaining on the agenda:

13:34:33 [Zakim]

1. Inaccessibility of CAPTCHA. [from jasonjgw]

13:34:33 [Zakim]

2. Synchronization Accessibility User Requirements. [from jasonjgw]

13:34:33 [Zakim]

3. Accessibility of Remote Meetings. [from jasonjgw]

13:34:33 [Zakim]

4. Natural Language Interface Accessibility User Requirements. [from jasonjgw]

13:34:54 [jasonjgw]

agenda+ Miscellaneous topics.

13:35:09 [jasonjgw]

chair: jasonjgw

13:35:19 [jasonjgw]

present+

13:52:47 [janina]

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13:58:16 [JPaton]

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14:01:59 [janina]

present+

14:02:08 [scott_h]

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14:02:22 [janina]

zakim, who's here?

14:02:22 [Zakim]

Present: jasonjgw, janina

14:02:22 [Joshue108]

present+

14:02:24 [Zakim]

On IRC I see scott_h, JPaton, janina, Zakim, RRSAgent, MichaelC, jasonjgw, Joshue108, trackbot

14:02:26 [scott_h]

present+

14:03:37 [jasonjgw]

zakim, next item

14:03:37 [Zakim]

agendum 1 -- Inaccessibility of CAPTCHA. -- taken up [from jasonjgw]

14:03:58 [SteveNoble]

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14:04:06 [SteveNoble]

present+

14:05:03 [SteveNoble]

jasonjgw: CAPTCHA discussion - issues we can keep working on?

14:05:30 [SteveNoble]

janina: Still need to look at the Cloudfare implementation

14:06:03 [SteveNoble]

janina: Need to get an handle on where the work on trust tokens is at

14:07:01 [SteveNoble]

jasonjgw: seems like two parts - (1) trust tokens and privacy

14:07:25 [SteveNoble]

jasonjgw: (2) overall conclusions and recommendations are the other

14:08:21 [SteveNoble]

janina: Shifting responsibility to user agents and away from authors seems like the direction

14:08:57 [Lionel_Wolberger]

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14:08:58 [SteveNoble]

jasonjgw: Have not seen any new comments on github so far

14:09:05 [Lionel_Wolberger]

present+

14:09:28 [Joshue108]

agenda?

14:10:00 [Joshue108]

SN: Lionel has joined

14:10:41 [SteveNoble]

Lionel_Wolberger: Let's keep going and not slow track it

14:11:23 [SteveNoble]

janina: Maybe asking is shifting to user agents may help generate comments?

14:12:07 [SteveNoble]

Lionel_Wolberger: Maybe hardware tokens as well...emits a sound, for example

14:13:40 [SteveNoble]

Lionel_Wolberger: Many organizations that people encounter have regularized processes - may need to look at those examples

14:14:07 [SteveNoble]

Lionel_Wolberger: Mutually trusted third-party can broker a connection

14:14:33 [SteveNoble]

jasonjgw: Any more at the moment to discuss?

14:14:58 [SteveNoble]

Lionel_Wolberger: Not much to report this week

14:15:32 [SteveNoble]

Lionel_Wolberger: Previous focus has been on proven humanity

14:15:50 [SteveNoble]

Lionel_Wolberger: 2-factor authentication has been around for a while

14:16:28 [SteveNoble]

Lionel_Wolberger: Maybe using 2-factor approach can allow someone to bypass CAPTCHA approach

14:17:38 [SteveNoble]

Lionel_Wolberger: Example of people bypassing typical security screening at the airport by setting up TSA pre and such things

14:18:27 [SteveNoble]

janina: Probably not much to add to the legacy CAPTCHA language

14:18:45 [jasonjgw]

zakim, next item

14:18:45 [Zakim]

agendum 2 -- Synchronization Accessibility User Requirements. -- taken up [from jasonjgw]

14:19:42 [Joshue108]

JW: steve commited some changes

14:19:52 [Joshue108]

do you have more?

14:19:54 [Lionel_Wolberger]

Lionel thanks the group for its work on improving Captcha for people with disabilities. Looking forward to more progress next time.

14:19:59 [SteveNoble]

https://github.com/w3c/apa/issues/211

14:20:04 [Joshue108]

sn: we are close

14:20:20 [Joshue108]

would like to address this, xr related

14:20:56 [Joshue108]

i have created some text

14:21:14 [Joshue108]

sn: reads text

14:21:22 [SteveNoble]

Virtual reality and other forms of immersive digital environments are relatively new and can present a number of accessibility challenges. Both captioning of speech and video description of visual and auditory information presented in immersive environments are required to provide an inclusive experience. However, virtual reality, augmented reality, and other forms of interactive 360-degree audiovisual experiences generate particular access[CUT]

14:22:47 [janina]

q+

14:23:35 [Joshue108]

sn: that addresses john P and rajas comments

14:24:20 [Joshue108]

rk: relating to blind and wayfinding a la noise in 360 - games use radar, maps and directional.

14:24:36 [Joshue108]

we can brainstorm now

14:25:06 [Joshue108]

or we could add the word, wayfinding which is indicative

14:25:32 [Joshue108]

js: is a little concerned about scope

14:25:59 [Joshue108]

we may deal with this in xaur

14:26:07 [Joshue108]

more appropriate

14:26:43 [Joshue108]

https://www.w3.org/TR/xaur/

14:27:00 [Joshue108]

dont want to mix up too many things here

14:27:03 [Joshue108]

q?

14:27:08 [Joshue108]

ack jan

14:27:38 [Joshue108]

jw: we can clarify research limits and indicate new directions

14:28:10 [Joshue108]

js: didnt we do that in xaur?

14:28:25 [Joshue108]

we should cross reference?

14:28:46 [Joshue108]

q+

14:29:30 [SteveNoble]

Joshue108: Wayfinding and directions are mentioned in the XAUR

14:29:52 [SteveNoble]

Joshue108: Being able to translate into different modalities was covered

14:30:05 [Joshue108]

https://www.w3.org/TR/xaur/#spatial-orientation-mono-audio-option

14:30:13 [Joshue108]

ack me

14:30:39 [SteveNoble]

janina: We may want to reopen XAUR to deal with new developments

14:30:43 [Joshue108]

+1 to Janina

14:30:56 [Joshue108]

on keeping the SAUR lean and focussed

14:31:13 [SteveNoble]

janina: Better to keep SAUR focused on syncronization

14:31:56 [SteveNoble]

raja: Keeping this focused on synchronization sounds good

14:32:41 [Joshue108]

jw: will review the xaur again

14:33:01 [Joshue108]

https://www.w3.org/TR/xaur/

14:33:08 [Joshue108]

JW: Steve does that help?

14:33:13 [Joshue108]

Sn: Yes

14:33:23 [Joshue108]

We should link to the XAUR

14:34:29 [Joshue108]

SN: to say John P is on the call

14:34:44 [Joshue108]

JW: We can frame this as something that needs further research

14:35:01 [Joshue108]

JS: We should re-read and compare both SAUR and XAUR etc

14:35:21 [Joshue108]

JS: I'm concerned about saying the same things in two docs

14:35:29 [Joshue108]

they can get out of sync

14:35:59 [Joshue108]

SH: Asks a question about video descriptions - is that audio description?

14:36:12 [Joshue108]

JS: We do want AGWG to clean up their language.

14:36:27 [Joshue108]

JS: <MAUR was the first doc - history lesson>

14:37:08 [Joshue108]

JS: Amazon has been challenging by creating audio out of text streams

14:37:22 [Joshue108]

SH: So WCAG 3 will move to video description?

14:37:43 [Joshue108]

SH: No one in OZ will understand that

14:38:24 [Joshue108]

JS: Indeed - <discussed text description and pausing video to pause video>

14:38:32 [Joshue108]

We have use cases that are not covered by audi

14:38:41 [Joshue108]

s/audi/audio

14:38:53 [Joshue108]

JS: MAUR could be updated also

14:39:04 [Joshue108]

JW: Anything else Steve?

14:39:18 [Joshue108]

SN: That takes care of the last issue in GH

14:40:15 [Joshue108]

JW: I can merge that

14:40:19 [Joshue108]

JOC: Go for it

14:40:21 [Joshue108]

q+

14:40:24 [Joshue108]

ack me

14:40:52 [SteveNoble]

Joshue108: Messaging on SAUR update?

14:41:30 [SteveNoble]

janina: Need to establish if this is going to be a joint publication first

14:42:03 [Joshue108]

JOC: wfm

14:42:04 [SteveNoble]

jasonjgw: This will change the messaging text

14:43:27 [jasonjgw]

zakim, next item

14:43:27 [Zakim]

agendum 3 -- Accessibility of Remote Meetings. -- taken up [from jasonjgw]

14:44:10 [SteveNoble]

jasonjgw: Major work has been going on for Remote Meetings documents

14:44:41 [SteveNoble]

jasonjgw: Lots of work by Scott!

14:46:02 [SteveNoble]

scott_h: Have worked through most issues, a few remain

14:46:31 [SteveNoble]

scott_h: Issue 266

14:47:19 [SteveNoble]

scott_h: Insuring when a waiting room is used that status messages are accessible

14:48:47 [SteveNoble]

scott_h: Broader considerations of the developer's perspective of how access to these messages is provided

14:49:36 [SteveNoble]

scott_h: Proper to point to WAI spec about alert messages

14:50:05 [SteveNoble]

jasonjgw: This was added to WCAG 2.1

14:50:47 [SteveNoble]

jasonjgw: Meant to make sure this was available to API - applies to 4.1.2

14:51:49 [SteveNoble]

janina: Providing these (according to 4.1.3) to the API is needed

14:52:08 [SteveNoble]

scott_h: But all of these messages can be overwhelming

14:52:39 [SteveNoble]

janina: Pinning some of these to a braille display is a good process

14:53:48 [SteveNoble]

scott_h: Issue 292

14:54:20 [SteveNoble]

scott_h: How all people should be able to see and hear each other in virtual and hybrid meetings

14:55:08 [SteveNoble]

scott_h: The problem of how close to a microphone someone needs to be

14:55:52 [SteveNoble]

janina: This is a bit overstated...do we really need to mention these?

14:56:14 [jasonjgw]

zakim, next item

14:56:14 [Zakim]

agendum 4 -- Natural Language Interface Accessibility User Requirements. -- taken up [from jasonjgw]

14:57:16 [Joshue108]

https://github.com/w3c/apa/issues/262

14:57:24 [SteveNoble]

jasonjgw: Document by MITRE on chatbot accessibility - this has been added to Github

14:57:44 [Joshue108]

Take into account Mitre Corporation work on chatbot accessibility. #262

14:58:08 [Joshue108]

q?

14:59:01 [SteveNoble]

Joshue108: some COGA comments on voice menus - we will need to push dicsussion to next week

15:00:12 [SteveNoble]

janina: APA meeting time is changing starting next week, starting at 10:00 AM Eastern, so will need to leave this meeting a bit early as regular course

15:00:53 [jasonjgw]

zakim, bye

15:00:53 [Zakim]

leaving. As of this point the attendees have been jasonjgw, janina, Joshue, scott_h, SteveNoble, Lionel_Wolberger

15:00:53 [Zakim]

Zakim has left #rqtf

15:01:05 [jasonjgw]

rrsagent, make minutes

15:01:05 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/02/09-rqtf-minutes.html jasonjgw

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15:04:46 [jasonjgw]

rrsagent, make minutes

15:04:46 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/02/09-rqtf-minutes.html jasonjgw