Functional Needs Meeting

08 February 2022


Jake, Josh, MichaelC, Todd
Joshue108, Todd

Meeting minutes

JOC: To talk about today we have a review of the current work

Update from Todd on Deceptive patterns

Plus the NAUR user needs approach

JA: We need to discuss the error and erros stuff

Vision and Visual, Personalization etc

We should focus on those

JA: Discusses the user needs as outlined in NAUR are worth discussing


MC: Regarding NAUR - how are the user needs conflicting?

JA: They are not consistent in their approach

They don't seem to be consistent as a subset of our approach

It would be good if they were consistent

Starting at higher level, and then being granular

MC: These documents are meant to have a common structure

worth looking at for round 2

As this functional need work will become more under APA we can look at this.

We JOC: I think, this is a good point Jake

I would also think that doing this comparison in a round 2 is needed

Especially as we mature the FAST

JOC: The *AUR series does follow a particular pattern based on evidence, research and experts best judgement

JA: So I have some questions..

Jake questioning user need 1 and 2 2.1 User ID & Auth

Needs not mentioned in sentence.

User needs not consistent

Jake: What is the consistency?

Jake: Requirements are okay, user needs are too granular. Missed other user needs.

Michael: Feedback on document it seems, looking at structural thing.

Michael: Think the new lens is helpful, how do we update those docs

<Joshue108> JOC: Suggests Jake gives that feedback on the NAUR https://github.com/w3c/apa/issues/new

<Joshue108> JOC: This kind of structural feedback is really helpful

<Joshue108> We can then build a systemic approach to future use needs and requirement

<Joshue108> JOC: Acks Jakes feedback but we were not thinking in more global way so to speak

<Joshue108> JA: We could do an exercise on how to rewrite these, in a more structured way.

<Joshue108> We can provide some guideance for different teams on this.

<Joshue108> MC: I'm in favour of that, if done in a gentle way, until we have a strategy

<Joshue108> JA: I wanted to discuss with Josh

<Joshue108> JOC: Appreciates that - the birds eye view and more systemic approach is welcome

<Joshue108> Then specs and document makers can use it

<Joshue108> MC: On the guideance we can provide, I would like this group to come up with an overview on how this can be written.

<Joshue108> We do need public review of this, and there could be good changes coming from public review.

<Joshue108> There is a stableisation.

<Joshue108> JOC: Things will get torn down

<Joshue108> MC: Our next action could be to work out how to put this content inot FAST

<Joshue108> How could it be useful? Then the mechanics of it.

<Joshue108> JOC: We could aim for iterating the FAST

<Joshue108> MC: We need to

<Joshue108> MC: We can copy the current user needs - or at least make them availabel for review.


<Joshue108> JOC: Where are we at in terms of demonstrable deliverables

<Joshue108> We can benefit from this, in terms of better engagement and showing the work we have done.

<Joshue108> JA: Some are more mature than others..

<Joshue108> We need to dive in..

<Joshue108> JOC: I cant see why we cant get this ready to go for early March

<Joshue108> JA: I will be unavailable for some of the next couple

<Joshue108> JA: Lets do instructions for interactions on Thurs, put into main sheet

<Joshue108> Then you could do a survey

Error User Needs

<Joshue108> JA: <Demonstrates thinking in submitting a form>

<Joshue108> Shares the error subgroup work.

<Joshue108> JA: They needed a structure of outcomes

<Joshue108> They are distributed - and I tried to get them into Silver

<Joshue108> <Discusses prevention detail>

<Joshue108> Jake gives overview and explanation of origin of content related user functions

As far as I remember, the Errors docs were a living document that were evolving as we met. Nothing was concrete as of our last meeting.

I believe this was the last iteration of the Error Prevention Subgroup Guidelines draft: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1s-wx57F_p1V-ndalMgBjQUZkQU6zN7dnenTx112_C0I/edit#heading=h.yfs7sk4k3ab6

Error Guidelines Outline: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1JEMptWtJ68pxrlbBukcUi5zwTrDNhftfOCCpN8ehET4/edit#heading=h.wyqv6qhi222r

<Joshue108> MC: We want to focus on the high level stuff

With the Errors docs, we had lots of people contribute to those docs, but participation was spotty and ever-changing with a few stops and starts with the subgroup. So many people were involved with the Errors work.

<Joshue108> I see this as a seed to get the SIlver and WCAG 3 to help with the development

<Joshue108> JOC: Happy for that

<Joshue108> JA: We can talk about issues we may encounter


<Joshue108> Todd: Please do comment

Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by scribe.perl version 185 (Thu Dec 2 18:51:55 2021 UTC).


Succeeded: s/patters/patterns

Maybe present: JA, JOC, MC, Michael