Cognitive and Learning Disabilities Accessibility Task Force Teleconference

27 Jan 2022


ShawnT, Rain, Fazio, Jennie, LisaSeemanKest, rashmi, julierawe, Le_, JohnRochford, JustineP, kirkwood, Rachael
Kris Anne, Albert, EA, Chris


<rashmi> Rashmi present+

<Rain> URL to sign up to scribe: https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/coga/wiki/Scribe_list

<Rain> scribe: julierawe

Introduce new folks

Rain and Lisa will alternate between facilitating during today's meeting

Le is an accessibility engineer at TPGi.

<JohnRochford> Welcome, Le!

Le is excited to be part of COGA and possibly the Mental Health subgroup.

Rashmi is part of the COGA community for the past 6 months.

<JohnRochford> Welcome, Rashmi!

<Rachael> Welcome Le and Rashmi

<Jennie> Welcome Le and Rashmi!

Rain reminds everyone today to say a little bit about yourself to help introduce team to new members.

Lisa is offering orientation for new members.

Lisa joined W3C efforts shortly after WCAG 1.0

Lisa was the first editor of ARIA specifications.

Rashmi will email Lisa about possible times for an orientation session.

Lisa said the Mental Health subgroup needs more people to help with literary review.

<JustineP> error

Per Shawn's question: If you want to send regrets via IRC, that would have to happen during the meeting itself.

Check in with all sub-groups and action requests: https://docs.google.com/document/d/15HtPkkYx1CIl6bAwP2nsSZKhqTVbqcuMDRz5RmtmvXg/edit

David Fazio has no updates at this time

David has a company that focuses on user research focused on people with disabilities.

Jennie is the accessibility analyst in Minnesota's state office of accessibility.

Jennie update on images subgroup: Have set up meeting dates with graphic designer.

John Kirkwood: we are meeting later on guardianship and also meeting with Jennie and graphic designer.

John Kirkwood was the digital accessibility director for New York City's department of education and designed the first accessible for New York City.

Jennie: I will give you an estimate next week on timelines.

<JohnRochford> https://www.linkedin.com/in/john-rochford/

John is working on simplifying the COVID-19 info on every country's websites so people with low literacy can understand the information.

As we get every country to do this, we are training machines to learn how to simplify the text tehemsleve

<Le_> omg hallelujah. thats a great project!

<LisaSeemanKest> Sounds awsome John. CAn we use it for clear language examples?

<JohnRochford> See https://easycovid19.org/

<Le_> Great idea Lisa

Julie is special projects editor at Understood.

Clear language group is adding examples and debating them.

Justine is rejoining COGA after 5 months.

<LisaSeemanKest> great that you are back

Lisa: It's a problem to have both subgroups meet at the same time.

<JohnRochford> Lisa, I published, to the Clear Words doc, a couple examples from the EasyCOVID-19 Project.

Lisa reviewed CSS scrollbar draft.

<LisaSeemanKest> https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/6984

Janina told Lisa our feedback is too late, so she opened a github issue.

<Fazio> CSS was kinda rude about the comments

Lisa put the github comment in as a private person, not as a group, and would like other COGA members to add a comment here and elaborate on our concerns.

<LisaSeemanKest> https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/6984

<kirkwood> +1 to being important

Lisa also sent CFC to COGA group on our work statement. We didn't get many +1's but didn't get any negative comments.

Lisa also started drafting new version of cognitive and learning disabilities page for "How People with Disabilities Use the Web"

<Rain> Link to Lisa's draft for cognitive in how people with disabilities use the web from EO: https://docs.google.com/document/d/19hM0yrnniybRkkLcNqMtX-W-dy5CJ2IIxKY44rpMFWs/edit#heading=h.oyotggfdmu1f

We met with EOWG and they are happy to have the page updated.

John K. wants to know what the COGA group wants to say about the scrollbar from a cognitive perspective. He has limited vision and finds it hard to know when something can scroll.

The sizing of the scrollbar and whether it's visible or not visible. John thinks it's a big issue and is wondering if we as the COGA task force want to be more detailed and specific in the language around scrolling.

<Fazio> I did

<Fazio> ??

Rain said initial way COGA responded caused some tension and APA is trying to help create a smoother path.

The only path that we as COGA task force should take is for independent individuals to comment on Lisa's github so that APA has the opportunity to open a new discussion with CSS.

CSS's perspective is the matter was already closed.

CSS closed the issue after David's response but not because of David's response.

Responding personally to Lisa's github will allow APA to reopen the issue.

Rain said the discussion was between APA and CSS was live during TPAC and there are notes on the conversation. The moment that COGA got involved was a misunderstanding and APA is trying to help address our concerns.

<Rain> Julie: two questions. First about Lisa's github -- add comments this week?

<Rain> Rain: no time urgency

<Rain> Julie: Lisa brought up the new draft for EO's cognitive page. Reiterate that when we met with the EOWG they were very receptive to us reworking the page, but asked us to try to stick to their template and sections. It would be great for us to try to stick to their big sections, and we can find out if we have the ability to add more

<Rain> ... there are four other disability categories in this document. EO wants the five pages to look similar

[Rachael] Update from AG and what’s coming up in surveys

Rachael is an accessibility specialist for the Library of Congress.

Rachael is one of the co-chairs for W3C's Accessibility Guidelines Working Group.

<Rachael> https://github.com/w3c/silver/wiki

WCAG 3 is called Silver

Rachael: we are using wiki to organize the Silver documents.

WCAG 3.0 process document: there is a text version and a graphic version.

The WCAG 3.0 working draft is continually updated and has a lot of notes about what's being worked on. The editor's draft is public.

All documentation is organized in 4 different projects:

1. Foundational: we need to decide before we can move forward.

2. Scoring: How to measure

3. Content creation: What guidelines will go into WCAG 3

Julie made an error in scribing how the WCAG 3 work is organized

Content creation is how we talk about content creation. What is the process for creating the guidelines?

What is the structure of the content that comes out? We need to nail this down before we start to develop the guidelines.

COGA is working on guidelines as Silver revises the content creation process. So we have iterative back and forth.

John K: You have almost a sequence. Is there a reason why it's not numbered?

Rachael: This is buckets. It's not a perfect timeline.
... some subgroups are working ahead of the timeline, like Captions and Clear Words.

<Rachael> process: https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/AG_process

John R: Is the link in the IRC the same as the document you're looking at now?

Rachael: Yes
... We are working on finalizing so can use screen reader

John R: It's often the case that the blind don't know what we're missing. So it's hard to know if your audio description is sufficient.

Rachael: Regarding the schedule, what we have done to make it technically accessible to screen readers is make each column a quarter of a year.

Rain: time check

Rachael: The key for COGA is we will need Clear Words to create a page here. But the pages are a central place to capture all the information. It should list the participants and key documents and decisions. Someone in the CLear Words group should maintain that page.

Rachael is happy to work with us on setting up that page.

Jennie: A while back, the chairs of COGA set up pages for the different subgroups. Is there a way to automate what's already on there and pull it onto these new pages?

Rachael: We want to keep the structure of these documents the same. Just link to your working documents.

Jennie: Does that mean the minutes could automatically populate there?

Rain: I'll need to work with Rachael to see how that might work.

Jennie: I'd be able to help with that in a week or two.

Subgroup meeting (11am-Noon ET): Mental Health and Clear Language

Rain: We will postpone mobile discussion to next week

<kirkwood> ok with that

<JohnRochford> +1

Rain: Lisa is correct. We had talked about having Mental Health group this week. We have a conflict about which subgroup meets following this. Is Clear Language OK with waiting a week?

Julie: Yes!

Rain: the subgroup meeting following this meeting will be Mental Health and will continue on this same zoom and IRC.

Confirm work statement CFC - https://docs.google.com/document/d/1m7-BSm9IFWN9tszIf24oVnFRpq-4n27CKCiXXxMqaYs/edit#

<Jennie> *Apologies - have to drop. Have a good week!

<LisaSeemanKest> +1

Rain: Julie noticed we weren't consistent in capitalization. EA looked it up and said to be consistent with other publications, we should make sure "Making Content Usable" caps the first 3 words any time we reference that document.

<kirkwood> +1


<ShawnT> +1

<Rachael> +1

<Rain> +1

<Le_> +1

<LisaSeemanKest> +1

Lisa: the one thing we have to do is send the results to the list and link to the minutes from today so people can see everyone agreed and no one objected.
... One of us should email it and we should log it on a page of things that went through CFC process.

Rain: 5 minute break between the taskforce meeting and the mental health subgroup meeting

<Fazio> I have to drop off, sorry

Subgroup meeting (11am-Noon ET): Mental Health and Clear Language

Mental Health

Lisa: There's a list of Hebrew accessibility developers. I was thinking of inviting them to add to the Clear Language examples doc?

Julie expressed concern about making the doc available to large group of people since we locked it down so we could include "live" examples for now.

Lisa will reach out separately to the Hebrew developers and we will discuss next week whether to create separate documents for different languages.

Rain added that creating separate documents might be easier so the source language for each document can be that language.

Julie finished scribing and is exiting the meeting. Have a good week, everybody!

<LisaSeemanKest> looking at https://docs.google.com/document/d/1XWmikm5Ein5CQ02knEJ5iGzO1YJMilTMBJ_aLVCTzs0/edit#

<LisaSeemanKest> https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSeGrqJKV7RluoYrKHJN8cBJH3w9sDx7lAlAhcV0BeBTUVybkw/viewform

<LisaSeemanKest> spread sheet - https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1eKNrofGubnpQE6mO-vxmI-1MW5nA2LDj0LxebREPRGA/edit?resourcekey#gid=1686096268

<LisaSeemanKest> reach tracking google doc: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1XWmikm5Ein5CQ02knEJ5iGzO1YJMilTMBJ_aLVCTzs0/edit#heading=h.5dmfs65o1mm0

<LisaSeemanKest> form: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSeGrqJKV7RluoYrKHJN8cBJH3w9sDx7lAlAhcV0BeBTUVybkw/viewform

<LisaSeemanKest> rashmi ++ Lipschitz J, Miller CJ, Hogan TP, Burdick KE, Lippin-Foster R, Simon SR, et al. Adoption of mobile apps for depression and anxiety: cross-sectional survey study on patient interest and barriers to engagement. JMIR Ment Health. 2019;6:e11334. https://mental.jmir.org/2019/1/e11334/

<LisaSeemanKest> making content useable https://www.w3.org/TR/coga-usable/#design_for_everyone

<LisaSeemanKest> spread sheet made by the form: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1eKNrofGubnpQE6mO-vxmI-1MW5nA2LDj0LxebREPRGA/edit?resourcekey#gid=1686096268

<LisaSeemanKest_> LISA (new) Identifying Usability Challenges of eHealth Applications for People with Mental Disorders: Errors and Design Recommendations. : Blankenhagel, K. J. (2019, May). In Proceedings of the 13th EAI International Conference on Pervasive Computing Technologies for Healthcare (pp. 91-100). Paywall

<Rain> trauma

<LisaSeemanKest_> https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/2167702620921341

<kirkwood> https://www.newyorker.com/news/our-columnists/what-if-trigger-warnings-dont-work

<LisaSeemanKest_> screen shots of good and bad examples: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1TeSP612Z9Zf7Srojdbq0te615CE0g5wB6puCBVLXziw/edit#

<LisaSeemanKest_> we need to look into trumer. can personlization help?

Summary of Action Items

Summary of Resolutions

[End of minutes]

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$Date: 2022/01/27 17:29:22 $

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Default Present: ShawnT, Rain, Fazio, Jennie, LisaSeemanKest, rashmi, julierawe, Le_, JohnRochford, JustineP, kirkwood, Rachael
Present: ShawnT, Rain, Fazio, Jennie, LisaSeemanKest, rashmi, julierawe, Le_, JohnRochford, JustineP, kirkwood, Rachael
Regrets: Kris Anne, Albert, EA, Chris
Found Scribe: julierawe
Inferring ScribeNick: julierawe
Found Date: 27 Jan 2022
People with action items: 

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