Accessibility Education and Outreach Working Group (EOWG) Teleconference -- 21 Jan 2022

Introductions

Supplemental Guidance or another term

<krisannekinney> https://github.com/w3c/wai-wcag-supplemental/issues/39

KA: Do people think that guidance is too close to guidelines? IS this phrase easy enough to understand?
... Have had also input from Coga

Shawn: Ask people to have context in mind for this

Carlos: Does supplemental guidance apply only to WCAG or it applies also to things beyond WCAG?

Shawn: Good point. First it applied to WCAG 2
... Slight chance we might want some other things related to user agent

<Howard> Agree with Brent's comment. Don't have a problem with the phrase 'supplemental guidance'.

Shawn: For the most part it is still related to WCAG 2

Carlos: I understand the scope, that's enough

Kevin: Where does it fit in the broader picture?

Shawn: Redesign includes: Understanding WCAG, WCAG techniques, Test Rules, and new Supplemental Guidance.
... We make suer that it is very clear that these are not required

Kevin: Things like supporting materials

<kevin> Some alternatives: Support material, Additional Information

KA: Is this page meant to be permanent or it is just a pointer to other resources?

Shawn: The plan was that it lived here. Some decided they wanted to put their content in TR.
... I think this is the primary place for supplemental guidance
... Good point

KA: If this is where these resources live, how we call this deserves careful thought

<shawn> draft redesign https://deploy-preview-101--wai-intro-wcag.netlify.app/standards-guidelines/wcag/docs/

Shawn: This is the draft redesign of WCAG 2 documents.
... WCAG standard, Quick Reference, Supporting documents, supplemental guidance, and ACT Rules
... This is part of the standard, it just goes beyond the requirements
... The phrase "Supplemental guidance" is in WCAG 2.1
... AFter WCAG 2 there were a number of Task Forces proposing criteria that was not finally included. So they wrote the supplemental guidance, and the phrase "encourage authors to refer to supplemental guidance" was included in WCAG 2.1

KA: Goood to have that history.

Kevin: That background helped. I would +1 supplemental guidance. It makes sense.

Laura: I am OK with this as well. Will there be a cross link between the supplemental guidance in TR and this one?

Shawn: Yes, they are now in here as well.

Laura: Supplemental guidance can cause confussion, as if it is two versionss of the same thing

Shawn: Sounds like an easy fix.

Laura: If we are already using a term, it is important to be consistent.

Shawn: We could change this in WCAG 2
... Consistency is a good reason to stick with it

KA: From that mention of supplemental guidance, will there be a link to here?

Shawn: The 2.1 link would go to this section, we cannot change the link. IN 2.2, we could go straight to here

KA: It would be good to be consistent

Jade: Supplemental guidance is additional. Maybe this should be supplementary instead of supplemental

Shawn: Are you proposing that we change that?

Jade: Don't feel strongly about it, just the language point.

KA: If you have further thoughts, you can put them in GitHub

Shawn: Thanks much, It has been very helpful. I think we are hearing to leave it. We are getting closer to publishing this

How People with Disabilities Use the Web update

Kevin: Working on feedback on HPWDUW

<scribe> ... Ongoing problem of gender from Blair and other feedback

Evaluation Tool List Redesign

Vera: We would like to address the comments on the survey. There are comment we have not been able to address yet as the survey was extended.

[Screen sharing with changes]

Vera: Changes in the filters, there will be another survey to look into this in more detail

Charlotte: Redesign is a broad term. We were asked to qualify this a bit

<brent> +1 to that clarification

Charlotte: Any comments on this part?
... Audience. Primary and secondary audience. Based on comments we added several categories
... We had also comments on user stories. We added based on earlier changes in audience.

Kevin: Evaluation was used by people to get an understanding of accessibility. I don't know if that has been thought as a consumer. Happy to hear any thoughts on that.

Charlotte: We took that into consideration. I am not sure if we put these into the audience. Do you think we need to add something like a web user role?

Kevin: Maybe that is a secondary audience. Non-technical or non-expert user
... The way we are using this is not necessarily that they are going to become an accessibility expert. Just for people to look at the problems that exist

Charlotte: User story was about trainings showing accessibility problems. We may want to add another user story for generic learner
... We had comments on this being very techincal. WE are are going to refine the language, especially in the current taxonomy and the filters
... There was a suggested requirement that the tool would open always in a new tab. That makes it easier to come back to the list. That's done now.
... We are still looking into how to enable users to update the list more easily
... MAybe using a database or GitHub

Steve: The other tools lists have a form where people can submit new ones. Those forms generate data which is used to create the web
... There could possible be an option to allow users to edit their submissions, not sure if this is part of the current requirements

Charlotte: That would help have more updated information
... We had comments on metrics most popular or recognized tools
... Careful not to suggest W3C endorsement
... Also not sure if this is within scope
... We are trying to objectively guide people to the right tool without using such metrics

Shawn: Could you make it clear in the documentation that that is something users wanted and we will not do? For people who did not have this background to be clear on this.

Charlotte: Will do.

Vera: These are the comments we could address. There are more, we will be getting to these in the future

Filters

<krisannekinney> https://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/Evaluation_tools/Revision_2021#Proposed_filters

Vera: Some of these you will recognize by the title
... First is purpose of the tool
... These are very user goal oriented filters
... Next is what kind of product you would like to evaluate. Websites, applications, documents, source code, or other

Laura: Do we want to distinguish content from website more clearly?

Eric: Documents were also web content. Website could be web page as well
... Next is media types, video, animations, images, and audio

KA: Is it the media you want to evaluate?

Vera: Yes,
... Next is to tell the user how the tools are integrated
... Next category is paid or free. Closer to the user language.
... Next is scope that the tool can evaluate. Is it a single element, a single page, an entire website, and app
... Next there is guidelines. We think we could keep the current filters but we may need to come back to this lisst in the future
... Next is file format. Somoe of these filters are more relevant than others. File format is more relevant for documents or source code. This include different types of document formats.
... Accessibility of the tool itself. We have to rely on the information provided to learn about that.
... Operating system and browser
... Language of the tool itself
... Metrics. This include things that we've learned in our interviews. Things that can be measured automatically. People come to this lists with a specific goal, fir exampels checking the contrast of the page. We may want to add more metrics in the future
... Any questions?

Kevin: We need the capability to extract a report. I am not sure if that is something you are considering. It is a difficult one.

Vera: Our research indicated that was not necessary for people. Generating the report is one way, another is to display the accessibility issues

Kevin: Other tools will provide such a report but you may have to log in

Vera: Very good consideration to make, we will that add that to the filters

Carlos: +1 to Kevin. The WCAG report can now import reports from automated tools in JSon
... You are implying that WCAG2 measures things automatically, that should probably be amended. They are objective, some are still not automatable
... If we are using this, we need to be objective on the ones we keep
... IN the case of non experienced people there might be confusion as to whether the tool detects the problem and/or suggests solutions.

Vera: Good point. We will support people to choose the metrics and will tell them what the tools can do

Eric: I added sentence "things we can measure automatically" thinking on ACT Rules. There may be vendors who can provide information on the rules they are able to test.

Carlos: Makes sense to integrate

KA: Thanks for your work
... Survey is open until the ned of the day today

Survey completion

KA: All active members of EOWG are supposed to complete surveys.
... These are important for editors to get appropriate feedback and continue their work
... We ar eproposing to add indicators of how much time the survey may take

Brent: I use to look at my work schedule just when the survey opens. Otherwise it might not be possible for me to get to this.

<CarlosD> +1 to provide an estimate of the time it will take to complete the survey

<kevin> +1

Brent: For this one I was planning on getting through this on Friday, could not do it, and forgot Monday was a holiday
... What other strategies can we include to make sure these surveys are done?
... Completing the survey can be just say "I did not have the time to complete the survey" other priorities can come up

Shawn: Every active member should complete the survey, but you can say "This is not my thing, I trust others to decide". But it is important to record these things

Howard: Maybe doing this as a calendar invite with the deadline

<kevin> +1 to Kris Anne's approach to planning!

<MarkPalmer> +1 from me too

KA: I love that hought. I make calendar invites for myself and I put there all the resources that I need. It makes it so much easier for me to do the work. I make the meeting out of the email, you can do this with some email clients

<Laura> +1 to calendar invite. I do the same.

Shawn: Is there a way to send a calendar invite that does not have a specific time?
... Something that people can easily change

Kevin: You can do. AS soon as you put it in your calendar you can do what you want with it

<Zakim> kevin, you wanted to ask systems team to move away from basic authentication

Kevin: That would make life easy

Brent: We should not pick the due date. Maybe we need to set it up with the opening date

KA: Isn't there a reminder email?

Shawn: Only works for surveys that last for more than seven days

Kevin: System use basic http authentication for resources that require W3C login

Shawn: It would be useful to send email to the systems team

Steve: I don't think it is basic. Maybe they are using the very next

KEvin: Still a problem.

<brent> What about an App. Is there and App for that? There is always an App for that, no matter what "that" is.

Howard: I would just do the due date and send reminders

KA: You can submit your answers half way throug. When you resubmit it will overwrite the first response
... Even if your response is "I can't do now" will help editors
... We need to make sure that we have active participation
... We appreciate all the help you are providing us with.

<shawn> [ Kevin , looks like sysreq@w3.org is the right address fot you, too. https://www.w3.org/Help/Webmaster.html#help"Please, write to sysreq@w3.org with a precise description of your technical problem." ]

Jade: Perhaps we could compromise and have three days before the deadline. That would probably help scheduling. +1 for a time estimate on how much time this would take

Brent: A big thank you to these people who do the surveys and always provide feedback. You ahve all provided very good feedback to editors. We can of course send reminders.

<Vicki> Thank you for all the reminders sent by the Co-chairs, you are awesome. The reminders are so valuable! Got to leave early.

Shawn: In the past we had me and Shadi who were doing a careful review of everything. Also reviewed things before coming to the group.
... We have asked the chairs to take the role of thorough reviewrs
... It is important to communicate in the survey the level of review you did
... Sometimes it is good to say "I did not have time to look at this part"

Brent: Sometimes you have time to engage with others on GitHub issues and survey comments and other times you cannot. Sometimes it is helpful to say that you did not get to a specific part, for others to take a closer look.
... In the past we had a weekly survey. The planning meeting will discussed these Thursdays before the meeting. It was a good thing to do to complete the survey and be ready for the review on Friday
... Then we dropped the weekly survey and moved to a project-based survey that we launch when editors are ready
... Feel free to reach out to chairs on what things are and are not working for you

Work for this Week

KA: Survey about the Evaluation Tools list will close today
... Curricula survey is upcoming, hopefully we can have an estimate of how much time this will take to complete

Use of our Materials

Shawn: This is an example of how our work is used

<shawn> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/wai-eo-editors/2022Jan/0008.html

Shawn: This person did a presentation and used the Planning and Managing resource heawvily. They structured an entire training session based on our resource and hold a Q&A session

KA: Thanks much for this meeting, thanks to Eric, Vera, Charlotte, and Brian for joining today

- DRAFT -

Accessibility Education and Outreach Working Group (EOWG) Teleconference

21 Jan 2022

Attendees

Contents