WCAG3 Test Reliability

14 Dec 2021


Wilco, Francis, Danial, jeanne


<scribe> scribe: jeanne

FS: Is it ever a bad idea not to mark up a change of language. I looked online to see if I could find useful informaiton.
... I found a teach french language website. I listened to it in Voiceover, but it was a mess and was not well handled in a screenreader.
... I didn't put it to WAI-IG but I could.

'WF: What about the mix was problematic?

<Francis_Storr> https://www.foodrepublic.com/2011/07/14/100-french-fooddrink-words-and-phrases/

FS: If you don't have the language pack installed, the page was garbled -- the language is completely off.

<Zakim> jeanne, you wanted to propose we restrict language change to blocks. That would handle the teaching language use case

JS: We should go back to talking about blocks. There are too many problems with requiring individual words.

DM: I think anything translation related needs every phrase marked with language change.

WF: What is the purpose of the page? A screenreader user would not be at a greater disadvantage as someone who could see. SIghted people do not get the pronunciation.

DM: Screen readers get the equivalent bad pronunciation.

WF: We keep getting examples of food

DM: Teaching a foreign language is an example where I often get questions about how to code it.

JS: Teaching literature, legal latin quotes, history discussions use block quotes of another language or phrases of another language.
... religious text

DM: How much are the speech dictionaries have a play on this? How much is the responsibility of screen readers? The Spanish language just procounces everything by Spanish pronunciation rules, English makes anything it doesn't recognize sound like English.
... the most used Latin words may already be in the language pack

WF: What is the point of coding for Latin when there aren't language packs for it?

JS: Forward compatibility. There could be a language pack in the future.

FS: Names of flowers and biology names -- scientific terms. Depending on what they are working on, it could be an everyday language for them.

WF: How to organize what we are discussing?


JS: Edge cases. I have been trying to capture them.

FS: SO should I go back to WAI-IG?

DM: eSpeak- an open source speech synthesizer has a Latin language pack

JS: :et
... Let's ask WAI-IG for examples of use cases of when a change of language should be identified and when it should not.

WF: Give them a few examples from our list to get them thinking.
... literal translations is a different use case than a word from a different language just in a sentence.
... In the example above, it doesn't make a difference.

FS: I'll get an email out to WAI-IG

WF: Let's look at the edge cases and recommend which passes and which does not.

<Wilco> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1onytB133NRc1EXEOVPizcOqeTi70r2JUcba-LgUyKEY/edit#heading=h.y5p1v6vmgi1x

JS: What if we said that a block of text needs language change, and anything translation related needs phrase or word.

DM: Also teaching a language

WF: So what we are saying is that it is context-dependent. WCAG2 didn't address context-dependent

FS: People will get upset about gaming

WF: Let's classify the edge cases

When is a word or phrase adopted into the main language stop needing a lang tag? Example, croissant or hors d’oevre?

One example in the main language dictionary - Fine, don’t need a change

One that is foreign to the main language dictionary - Does need a change?

i.e , etc, – lots of small words would need markup - Don’t need a change

Methods https://docs.google.com/document/d/1k3Z_qIvAGlhA_v7FkgDKH-Wkn_MUosA0U8B2-MLIy2g/edit#heading=h.1et5sb74qcgm

<dmontalvo> scribe+

JS: This is actually for the Method template from last summer, not Outcomes

<dmontalvo> Jeanne: First thing was accessibility support

<dmontalvo> ... One that we need to give some guidance to the groups bout what we expect

<dmontalvo> ... Lots of things we could pull from existing WCAG sources, but these are new ones

<dmontalvo> ... Next one was the assumptions

<dmontalvo> ... She struggled with these, so did I

<dmontalvo> ... Do we want to do that?

<dmontalvo> Wilco: Yes, let's at least provide some information on what should be in there

<Wilco> https://www.w3.org/TR/act-rules-format/

<dmontalvo> Wilco: Should we put the tests ahead of the background?

WF: Should we put the Tests before the Assumptions? You can't write the assumptions until you write the tests

<dmontalvo> ... The assumptions relate to the tests specifically. these are assumptions you are making in your tests

<dmontalvo> Jeanne: That would be very helpful

<dmontalvo> Jeanne: Also the input aspects we were not very clear on

<dmontalvo> Wilco: Input aspects are things you need to run the tests, like in most rules there is HTML and CSS, you need to have access to those. In some other rules you need to have an understanding of the language. In some others you need sight

Feedback from MATF on Method template

Summary of Action Items

Summary of Resolutions

[End of minutes]

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Present: Wilco, Francis, Danial, jeanne
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