07 December 2021


alex, CurtBellew, erika, howard_edwards, jemma, MarkMcCarthy, Matt_King, Rich_Noah, sarah, siri
Mark, MarkMcCarthy

Meeting minutes

<Jemma> title:ARIA-APG

<Jemma> introduction to new members

new apg home page design

<Jemma> http://wai-aria-practices.s3-website-us-east-1.amazonaws.com/

Matt_King: [describing the layout of the redesign wireframe]

Matt_King: we haven't spent a lot of time discussing what'll be on the homepage yet

Matt_King: current homepage has the intro and readme sections right now, back matter is on an about page right now

Matt_King: i expect jongunderson MarkMcCarthy and Jemma to have some opinions about what that page should look like

Rich_Noah: we should have some more news in early january

Matt_King: let's just talk about what we think the goals of the homepage should be for now

<Jemma> http://wai-aria-practices.s3-website-us-east-1.amazonaws.com/

jamesn: on a developer-sized screen, I'd like no more than one page of text and all the things you need available

jamesn: in other words, no wall of text

Matt_King: +1

MarkMcCarthy: +1

jongunderson: maybe we could make the principles like disclosures - everything could be there but hidden if need be

Matt_King: i was wondering that, if the goal is closer to what james is saying - it points you to info but the homepage doesn't convey mucuh

Matt_King: maybe if it should guide someone unfamiliar with the APG rather than someone who IS familiar

MarkMcCarthy: I think that's a good idea

Jemma: a comment on github says the current homepage is a little heavy; it might be nice to have some history and/or promote other relevant content

Jemma: some feedback from the study

Matt_King: i'm not sure background info _has_ to be on the homepage

Matt_King: maybe we take what's currently in the readme and turn it into a fundamentals page

Jemma: when i mentioned "history" earlier - I think to clarify I meant they were explaining how APG is related to ARIA

Jemma: in other words, providing more orienteering context

Matt_King: primary purpose is how to orient new users, then?

Jemma: yes

jamesn: yep

MarkMcCarthy: right

jamesn: those who know what they're looking for will probably come from Google results etc., so they'll end up where they need and have no need for the homepage

jamesn: we also need to make sure that there's nothing that exists ONLY on the homepage (besides friendly fluff)

jamesn: fluff might be, what does ReactJS, Ember, etc. etc. have on their homepage to entice people to dig deeper? like basics "why do you want to read this?" stuff

jongunderson: i agree! less is more, and help people find what they need

Matt_King: this should be enough so once Issac comes back to it, he should have enough to go on and some simple objectives

Matt_King: I really likes jamesn's statement - make it something simple, welcoming, and pushing people to what they need

Matt_King: editorially, we'll need to make some decisions. but I don't think Issac will need much other support

Matt_King: maybe a most visited card or page would be good?

Jemma: a rotating set of popular articles/pages might be helpful

jongunderson: making sure it's welcoming and useful for those new or practicing, with easy-to-use and easy-to-find information and indicies, is best I think

jongunderson: if anything, maybe a "Help Wanted" - things where we need hands, announcementsfor new examples that need comments, etc.

Matt_King: that makes me wonder too... for the new person, it seems we don't have a "Getting Started" page or content anywhere. would that have value?

jamesn: we used to have the ARIA Primer, but that's been largely absorbed and punted. it'd need lots of TLC

jamesn: honestly though, lots of 3rd-party stuff is better

Matt_King: reminds me of how it was in 2014 - APG pointed everywhere! [laughs]

<jamesn> https://developers.google.com/web/fundamentals/accessibility/semantics-aria/

Matt_King: i think that if we believe someone's content is important and useful, let's get their permission to cite/reuse it, or maybe change things a bit to fit editorial tone. or even invite them to write a page/article for APG

jamesn: That Google link I like, it explains in ways people can understand, isn't TOO overwhelming, gives people a gentle on-ramp, etc.

Matt_King: I'm not sure if anyone's seen the trailer we made for ARIA-AT, but I'm really proud of it. Maybe we could make something similar for APG?

jamesn: Sounds like an awesome project for someone to take - has upsides and downsides, but sounds awesome

<Jemma> I would also strongly support promotional/informational video like that of aria-at

+1 - that'd be hugely engaging for presentations, seminars, etc. too, rather than SMEs droning on about specs

Content strategy and Content Planning

Jemma: where are we with content inventory?

<Jemma> content priority discussion

Matt_King: we have a whole bunch related to content quality, new patterns that have been suggested or needing to be done... one other major priority I'm forgetting.

Matt_King: we talked recently about how we're making decisions related to content and planning, and prioritizing resources -- do we want to change how we're doing that?

Matt_King: to many of us, it probably feels a little reactive and chaotic sometimes. is that fair to say?

[general agreement]

jongunderson: if we could get more organized and better plans for upgrades or future work, that'd be good. i basically just started upgrading things I Worked on and care about, but many others that probably need it

jongunderson: such as our Tabs example

Matt_King: i think we have a project board where we made a card for every example. wondering if it'd be good to do an audit where we moved examples around priority buckets of some kind, for quality checks

jongunderson: the coverage report would tell us things like JS prototype or keycode implementations; also could tell us examples that don' thave a11y sections or HCM documentation

jongunderson: so coding practices, a11y features, HCM support -- those are at least 3 areas we'd want to make sure are included in every example

jongunderson: and lack of dubious practices [laughs]

Matt_King: like the Tab example

jongunderson: --tab example, right

Jemma: hearing we're talking about coverage of content, such as HCM documentation coverage; also hearing that we'll need to work on prioritizing content. right?

Jemma: what should our action for this be?

Matt_King: it seems to me that we need an approach that respects people's passions, and also a process to plan as a group (maybe Jemma and I can do that as editors, but that doesn't feel great to me).

Matt_King: if people have input for Jemma and I please send it! I'll think about this a lot more over the break, I want to grow the group, its capabilities, and people's passions. Especially since we'll have a new platform soon.

Repo Migration - technical discussion

Jemma: so basically, what do we need to do?

Matt_King: we have some high-level repo decisions to make, Rich, Alex? Over the next couple weeks, we want to have the ability to land something in main and end up on an editor/preview site

Rich_Noah: seth can share some more, but work is underway to figure out the best way to set us up for success

Seth: the first thing I Wanted to share is that the site redesign been oriented towards putting the examples under the broader WAI website

Seth: so we're drawing on E&O's template for the WAI website

<Jemma> https://github.com/w3c/apg-redesign

Seth: Basically, that looks like one website with the content of the project (so the aria-practices repo of today), and a separate repo that handles the presentation of all that content and how it's formatted for this particular output

Seth: we're proposing that these two repos would be codified and connected, so when a PR is made on the aria-practices repo, it'd generate a preview on the APG website via Netlify or something similar

Jemma: we don't have a URL in the repo yet, right?

<howard_edwards> https://github.com/bocoup/wai-aria-practices

Seth: if you go to the above link, this is what we're proposing to be the secondary repo controlling the presentation of content (and follows other sites on WAI's site)

Seth: Idea is to move FROM the Bocoup repo TO the W3C umbrella

Seth: This would be accompanied by revising contributing guidelines, since that'll change, and it'll supercede what already exists on the editor's note

Matt_King: currently out main doc is aria-practices.html in the root of the repo. what's the roadmap for changing that document into this new thing? directories etc? What do we have to do to restructure the current repo to support the new presentation/contribution/build process?

Seth: first - everything I said is incremental. we're connecting the pipeline so all new contributions automatically generate a new preview and all

Seth: Once we freeze the current editor's note, we can make changes on the aria-practices side which would otherwise break the editor's note.

Seth: that'd be working in tandem with the TF to sort out the best way to do that

Matt_King: we don't want to freeze the gh-pages branch prematurely, so it'd be good to have a full roadmap of all the non-breaking changes we can make before we get to the break point

Matt_King: the Editor's Draft looks pretty good right now, truthfully, but if we could add anything else that'd be good.

<Jemma> > Content:

<Jemma> https://wai-website-theme.netlify.app/technical/files/#source-file-structure

Seth: the new redesign was built in a way that doesn't require breaking changes. we did that with custom transforms which would translate the respec docs, but that's not ideal for long-term.

Seth: There's not a need to make a breaking change in the upstream repo to faciliatate anything _right now_

Jemma: Why do we have to transform the structure again? I lost the thread somewhere

Seth: the current document is one long respec file --

Jemma: gotcha

Seth: -- that _could_ work, but it's easier to track changes, associate styles, etc. if we break things out a bit. and an easier format for a contributor to add things

Jemma: that makes sense

Matt_King: we have some constraints imposed by respec, like linking from the example page to the keyboard section, or back to roles/states/properties etc.

Seth: I think that we're still working on getting the pipeline connected such that it'll build the new site but not break APG in the short term

Seth: considering what the best way forward is, Matt_King, we'd like to make some technical recommendations. there's probably some contributing and editorial considerations too; what you'd like to express, what alternate formats may or may not allow. et


Seth: maybe the TF can start thinking about those latter things for now

Matt_King: respec _does_ have some things that make writing things pretty easy, some features are good! the contraints are particular problematic though

jamesn: some of those are the ARIA implementation on top of respec, the scripting could be changed to alleviate some of the current constraints too. we just need someone who knows the code (which unfortunately isn't too many people)

jamesn: it's very much an oral tradition for folks that know how to use it

Matt_King: I'm hopeful Erika and Alex could help

Matt_King: maybe we should create an issue or something for our wishlist, then you can take that, Seth, into your technical recommendations

Seth: Sounds good to me

erika: +1

Matt_King: [rattling off most wanted wish list items]

Matt_King: Next steps - Seth, would we be in a position a week from today to hear some technical proposals?

Seth: we'd be in a better place but I can't speak for the team. certainly we could pick up from here at _least_

Matt_King: let's plan on that. i'll ping you Seth

Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by scribe.perl version 185 (Thu Dec 2 18:51:55 2021 UTC).


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Maybe present: jamesn, jongunderson, Seth