– DRAFT –
ARIA Authoring Practices Task Force

<Jemma> agedna?

December and January Meetings

Jemma: 2 meetings in december at most and 2 in Jan?

Matt_King: need some in dec to talk about repos restructure and getting set up to publish with new design

Jemma: 7 & 14?

Jemma: Can't meet Jan 4 but can the rest (11, 18, 25)

Matt_King: Next week - if there are technical discussions w/ Howard can you make it James

jamesn: I think I can make it

Planning next phase of work

<Jemma> Planning after ARIA APG Note 1.2

<Jemma> and Content priorities for redesign launch

Matt_King: Would like to float that the next milestone would be to publish the APG w/ the redesigned IA that Isaac helped develop

Matt_King: either prior to axe-con or for GAAD

Matt_King: the main things that need to happen are some content work (design the home page)

Matt_King: then also restructuring the repository so it can produce the content

Matt_King: then finish the process of coordinating with E&O

<Jemma> redesign prototype - http://wai-aria-practices.s3-website-us-east-1.amazonaws.com/

Matt_King: somewhat ambitious but that is what I would like to do

Matt_King: don't know if can focus on examples etc.

<Jemma> james: would everyone work on the project or will we split the work by subgroups?

<Jemma> mck: we have boucoup and they will do most of technical works.

Matt_King: bocoup is there for the tech work

Matt_King: the content for the home page - it is us deciding

jamesn: don't see the content discussion taking much time

Matt_King: not many meetings

Matt_King: even once have decided what there should be

Matt_King: lets talk about ideas next week

Matt_King: can move quicker hopefully after this

jongunderson: goal is to merge in other WAI websites

Matt_King: the using ARIA thing may be the next to merge

Matt_King: then tutorials

Jemma: goal is to migrate to the new platform

Matt_King: then can talk about the content

Matt_King: want to do an End 2 end audit of the content

Jemma: can have a content strategy group

Redesign migration and repository structure

Matt_King: editors draft of the aria spec and see that the aria spec doesn't have the problem

Matt_King: all the permalink headings are at the start of the headings

<MarkMcCarthy> Matt_King: 2159 - Howard made a comment and said it might be related to respec

<Jemma> https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/2159

<MarkMcCarthy> jamesn: Not sure why ARIA isn't getting the same issue though

<MarkMcCarthy> Matt_King: unless you have a different version of respec?

<MarkMcCarthy> jamesn: I don't think so...

<MarkMcCarthy> jamesn: oh it could be because a change wasn't pushed - let me check in to it quickly

<MarkMcCarthy> [james is checking]

<MarkMcCarthy> jamesn: visually looks fine to me here

<MarkMcCarthy> Matt_King: i'd prefer the link NOT be inside the heading, I'd rather it comes after the heading in the DOM

<MarkMcCarthy> jamesn: let me make a change to respec then, I'll talk to Marcos

<MarkMcCarthy> Matt_King: screen reader users would SUPER appreciate that

<MarkMcCarthy> jamesn: this was done in response to Matt Garish's request, but if people are complaining maybe we change it

<MarkMcCarthy> jamesn: they manually fixed it in WCAG, so WCAG wanted this change it seems

<MarkMcCarthy> Matt_King: i'm sure they don't want it in the beginning of the heading though

<MarkMcCarthy> jamesn: the section symbol was less burdensome, and you dont want to be bugged by them generally speaking, right?

<Jemma> https://github.com/w3c/respec/issues/3898

<MarkMcCarthy> Matt_King: yeah. updated link text is fine, but the fact it's announced BEFORE the heading is what makes it annoying

<MarkMcCarthy> jamesn: i'll see what I can do!

<MarkMcCarthy> Matt_King: thanks so much!

<MarkMcCarthy> Jemma: thank you!

<Jemma> Respec and references

<Jemma> under Redesign migration and repository structure

<Jemma> agenda

<MarkMcCarthy> Matt_King: Howard's gonna work on this and hopefully we'll get this thing built by the end of the year

<MarkMcCarthy> jamesn: I'll bring this up with Marcos, he knows more about respec and can likely help out

<MarkMcCarthy> Matt_King: i'm not sure if they're considering not using any of these things and maintaining the markup, etc. I'm not sure

<MarkMcCarthy> jamesn: that's stuff we're doing on our own though, not anything in respec

<MarkMcCarthy> Matt_King: making sure we're pointing to the right things would be really helpful of course

<MarkMcCarthy> jamesn: respec helps with that

<MarkMcCarthy> Jemma: we've talked about having centralized references and materials - how is that related to ARIA APG?

<MarkMcCarthy> jamesn: basically we need to have a unified dictionary. as is, every spec defines things on their own

<MarkMcCarthy> jamesn: e.g. all of our terms are informative and WCAG's are normative, so they can't use our terms as such

<MarkMcCarthy> Matt_King: i do want to be able to link to normative definitions, and better link to WCAG (and other places)

https://respec.org/xref/

<MarkMcCarthy> jamesn: any time, you can add a term in here (which respec explains how to do) and it'll then link it everywhere

<MarkMcCarthy> jamesn: essentially, the xrefs can go into the document header, and then it'll search through and find terms that way

<MarkMcCarthy> jamesn: at the moment in ARIA we're exporting too much, so i'm trying to pare that down. there are a couple terms that are problematic and i've got a couple to work out before rolling in a PR that solves exporting issues

<MarkMcCarthy> jamesn: it's difficult to put lots of things in there, because then other specs can't define the same terms since they're "taken"

<MarkMcCarthy> jamesn: if anyone has any ideas for how to remove aria common completely please let me know. it's a thorny topic and a difficult one to solve completely

<MarkMcCarthy> jamesn: i've been wanting to change the acknowledgement sections for a while, since we have a huge amount of people listed (many i don't know) and many aren't as active as others

<MarkMcCarthy> Matt_King: i have the same feelings, touchy as they are

jamesn: notes you can get gh contributors from respec

Unfinished work from 1.2 milestone

<Jemma> Accordion open PR #1834, #310, #1829, #1719, #954

Matt_King: biggest section is related to accordion

<Jemma> https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/1834

Matt_King: wanted to discuss whether or not we want these accrodion panels to be landmark regions

<Jemma> https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/954

<Jemma> "Within the Accordion design pattern guidance, the use of role=region is advised against when 6 or more regions are included, however this guidance does not take into account that there may be many such regions where the only way to ensure proper nesting information is to expose the relevant regions that are applicable...."

Matt_King: looking at the simple accordion - if the content was not in an accordion then you wouldn't have landmark regions - so would argue that we don't want them in this case

<Jemma> https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/954#issuecomment-956785779

<Jemma> "The conditional statement "Role region is especially helpful to the perception of structure by screen reader users when panels contain heading elements or a nested accordion." sounds clear to me, and provides guidance for complicated scenarios without advising against the use of accessible features when needed."

Matt_King: got to think about if we are going to provide more guidance would have to come up with what that is

Matt_King: Bryan did comment on the issue and we did say that we wouldn't add landmarks to the disclosure - sometimes useful to be able to understand the boundaries

jamesn: maybe add a group anyway?

Matt_King: don't like group everywhere as adds to verbosity

Matt_King: moving towards removing region from accordion

jongunderson: think we have too many landmarks

jongunderson: can see putting a region around a landmark

<Jemma> I like the word, role pollution ;-)

jamesn: advise removing landmarks as folks copy themn

jongunderson: put landmark in image carousel

Matt_King: made it a landmark and then used role desription for a carousel

jongunderson: landmarks are about navigation. should be very careful about including landmarks

+1 jongunderson

<Jemma> https://raw.githack.com/w3c/aria-practices/accordion-step-example/examples/accordion/accordion.html

<Jemma> https://raw.githack.com/w3c/aria-practices/accordion-step-example/examples/accordion/accordion-group.html