W3C

WoT vF2F in October - Day 4

27 October 2021

Attendees

Present
Albrecht_Schwarz, Ari_Keranen, Christian_Aabye, Cristiano_Aguzzi, Daniel_Peintner, David_Ezell, Ege_Korkan, Fady_Salama, Jennifer_Strickland, Kaz_Ashimura, Kunihiko_Toumura, Leigh_Anne_Mazure, Michael_Koster, Michael_Lagally, Michael_McCool, Peter_Bruhn_Andersen, Philipp_Blum, Rachel_Yager, Riaz_Aimandi, Ryuichi_Matsukura, Sebastian_Kaebisch, Takashi_Minamii, Takio_Yamaoka, Tomoaki_Mizushima, Tomoya_Asai, Zoltan_Kis
Regrets
-
Chair
McCool, Sebastian
Scribe
cris, kaz, sebastian

Meeting minutes

W3C Patent Policy

Agenda

Oct-27

Sebastian's slides

Sebastian: scribe: Sebastian and Cristiano

<Ege> me, daniel, fady took minutes

Sebastian: Architeture, Profile, (break), Scripting API, Marketing and Wrap-up
… any guest today?

Albrecht: Albrecht Schwarz

W3C Patent Policy

Sebastian: please be aware of the W3C Patent Policy
… note that everything will be published publicly
… so confidential information should not be shared during this call

Albrecht: agree

Sebastian: next
… we're using IRC for taking notes
… also use q+ / q- to manage the speaker queue
… resources
… wiki page here https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/F2F_meeting,_October_2021
… presentations available at https://github.com/w3c/wot/tree/main/PRESENTATIONS/2021-10-online-f2f
… and then would like Lagally to take over the moderator role

Architecture

Lagally's slides

Lagally: shows the agenda for architecture and profile
… architecture is responsible for the abstract architecture and interoperabiity profiles for WoT
… thanks to the contributors of the Arch and Profile document
… Arch specifies the abstract architecture, terminology and building blocks of WoT
… <shows toc of Arch document>
… <shows toc of Profile document>

<McCool> (it occurs to me that if these are just ed drafts, we need to have a FPWD by Jan 13!)

Lagally: lets go to the Arch. document
… currently working on terminology alignment
… some specifications have their own terminology section, need to align and move common definitions to architecture

<Ege> sorry for skipping the queue sebastian

no problem

<kaz> sk: we had similar discussion before

<kaz> ... we made the terminology section informative

I remember that PHL recommended to have terminology non-normative, however, I cannot remember what was the reason

<Zakim> kaz, you wanted to react to sebastian

Kaz: Terminology section have no nomative assertions. Personally I do not see the motivation to make it normative

<McCool> (I plan to mention the schedule constraint; we need to do all FPWD's by Nov 25 to hit CR by March 17)

<Zakim> kaz, you wanted to react to Ege

Ege: If the termonology section is normative, it does not prevent disalignment.

Lagally: thats right

<kaz> kaz: yeah, so from my viewpoint, what is important is not whether the terminology is normative or not, but the alignment itself

McCool: I do not have a hard opionen of that.

<McCool> (never mind, it seems both Arch and Profiles have had FPWDs already)

Lagally: another work is on protocol bindings
… introduction section needs an update
… there also some places with editorial notes that announce additional content

Lagally: next steps would be to work on implementation report, ...

Lagally: regarding publication schedule it is planned to freeze the features Jan 31, 2022
… we expect to have the charter extension

Lagally: thats about the architecture TF

kaz thanks

McCool: we should focus on Profile

Lagally: <gives an overview of the open issues in the Arch repo>

https://github.com/w3c/wot-architecture/issues

Lagally: we need to take care on accessibility

its important when it comes to TAG review

McCool: we should also check internationalization

Lagally: I will create a issue that take care of it

<kaz> How to do Wide Review

Kaz: there is a guideline about the document review. We should follow it

Lagally: <creates an issue about group wide review>

wot-architecture issue 621 - Group wide review

WoT Profile

Lagally: what is a WoT Profile?
… normative subset of WoT TD with a normative binding
… <shows some drawings in the slides>

just for clearification: profile do not develop specific binding like http, it simple reuse existing definitions

Lagally: <shows use cases as drawing>
… important use case is the "out of the box interoperability" use case

Ege: there is a problem with the "out of the box interoperability", even http is not interoperable since everyone can use it in own style

Kaz: W3C does not provide a certification for interoperability, but we can and should explain what is expected for WoT interoperability.
… we can provide a minimum set of requirements. Also from my viewpoint, what kind of vocabulary to be used for what kind of industry area is another important point for interoperability.

Lagally: There are some core requirements such as for data model and protocol binding

there is not a 'common' data model

Lagally: right, I will change this to 'restricted'

Lagally: currently there is work on the baseline for HTTP binding, identifying constraints and rules on the data model
… inambiguous interaction semantics
… constraints on payload formats
… protocol binding semantics
… best practice security requirements
… compliance

<McCool> https://github.com/w3c/wot-security-best-practices

<McCool> general guidelines and considerations are here: https://github.com/w3c/wot-security

Lagally: there are open issues in the data model sections like about the data model constraints

<McCool> my suggestion is to lean heavily on the security-best-practices doc, which is currently being updated

<McCool> but even so we will have to define at least two contexts, because of the annoying situation with TLS on LANs

Lagally: regarding eventing model there is a 'Push' proposal

Lagally: Webhooks are used in many solutions like in github, paypal, atlassian and wordpress

Ege: we have no imlementations of webhooks in the testfest so far
… we should also check what is implemented in OpenHub as example

Lagally: there is the chance to have this in the Oracle binding

Daniel: I think, this is not the case. But Im not 100% sure

Kaz: I partly agree with Ege's points. We should ask WoT implementers about their approaches, e.g., ECHONET, NHK, the other Plugfest participants, Takenaka and Netzo.

Lagally: introduces Cloud Events
… is a specification for describing event data in common way

McCool: Im wondering if this implementable for the profile on time?

Lagally: for Oracle it would be important

Sebastian: want to ask about the Cloud Events
… is that a standard or de facto?

Lagally: pretty small specification

<mlagally> https://cloudevents.io/

Philipp: it's run by the Linux Foundation

<McCool> (cloudevents is typical of "cloud" standards; someone publishes something, but is there an SDO? Not necessarily...)

Sebastian: any experience?

<McCool> (but if enough people use it... it's a "standard")

Lagally: my colleague is working

<Zakim> ege, you wanted to react to sebastian

Lagally: we have to work on the detail separately

<Zakim> kaz, you wanted to suggest we concentrate on the current features

Kaz: I'm wondering of the next step of the profile based on the provided MM schedule plans. I think it make sense to consider this for the next version. We can start initial survey in parallel, though.. A possibility is our going for Living Standards instead of RECs so that we can add any necessary features whenever we want but that would be a bigger question.

Lagally: we should plan this in the current release

Daniel: i think its quite late for considering webhook and cloud events
… I like to understand what is the consequences when we put those in?

McCool: we plan to have testfest Mid February

Philipp: we had a simple discussion with SenML
… there was much discussion about this kind of structure

<Zakim> Ege, you wanted to react to citrullin

Sebastian: our discussion on SenML was mainly about the payload structure

<McCool> (time check...)

Philipp: how to integrate it with TD

<Ege> ah sorry I remember now what I wanted to really ask

Lagally: the next steps are the push mechanism, rework data model, implementation report, compliance section, authentication and securiry, uncioorate PlufFest findings

Lagally: future work will cover other protocols like MQTT, ECHONET Lite, OPC-UA
… provide requirements for TD 2.0

<Zakim> McCool, you wanted to react to Ege

Lagally: Publication schedule is to freeze Jan 31, 2022

<kaz> [10-min break; then Scripting API (35mins) and Marketing]

<Ege> cloudevents is from cloud native foundation instead of linux foundation right? @citrullin?

Scripting API

Daniel's slides

Daniel: new options for consumer and exposer applications
… action state control
… discovery
… current node-wot status

Consume and Expose options

Daniel: pick one particular security scheme or protocol
… currently there's an interaction level option object to deal with particular binding.
… consume options will help with this task
… is a non-breaking change
… similarly for the exposed side
… node-wot offer a lot of different protocol bindings
… there's no practical way to configure the exposing algorithm
… like specify what is going to be exposed.
… but you need also a way to know is supported. In other words, enumerate runtime capabilites

Action state and control

Daniel: there're some new proposal about how actions should behave in the WoT world
… we are planning to introduce new APIs to control Actions status
… we are thinking about a Control object to manipulate an Action State
… it's a breaking change
… but we need the discussion to settle in other spec (TD and Profile)
… there's no way to properly handle action queue
… we need to understand the security model for Action states

Discovery

Daniel: we are trying to cover also the discovery spec
… we are waiting for a stable discovery document
… we can alredy support basic discovery spec
… however for scripts is beneficial to discover things easier

McCool: regarding this we don't have time to push new features in Discovery
… we can add this to the next charter
… it all nails down to which introduction mechanism you want to support in Scripting API

Zoltan: the names are just examples

<Zakim> Zoltan, you wanted to react to McCool

Daniel: how to solve nearby?

McCool: bluetooth beacon introduction would work

Daniel: we are still considering how to split the two discovery phases

McCool: I would propose just second phase

Daniel: the issue here is that we still need introduction mechanism

McCool: we are missing that
… we have to include on-boarding

Zoltan: I think the introduction belong to another API

<zkis> but we need to make a difference between discovering directories vs TDs

Daniel: I think onboarding could be specified inside Scripting API

McCool: let's have a joint meeting asap

consquences of recent changes

Daniel: ExposedThing does not extends ConsumedThing
… how to properly test an ExposeThing?
… how to use it as a ConsumedThing?

node-wot status update

Daniel: now it supports Readable Streams
… it took us a while
… it is going to be updated soon
… should we first implement than update spec??
… what people think about this approach?
… it would take longer to change the spec
… contributions are always welcomed
… node-wot is increasing download count per month

Lagally: do have statistics about users?

Daniel: we can't know for sure
… but we are getting more contributions
… we also have newcomers contributions
… also outside of the group

Lagally: it is good to see

Sebastian: we released in march and April our new web page. Maybe that increased the download.
… web page and youtube video
… if you look carefully the growth started right after April

next goals

Daniel: allign with all the TD features
… todo: canonicalization
… todo: discovery
… todo: wot profile? is it in scope?
… let us know if there's anything you would like to see

Zoltan: we are focusing on interactions

Daniel: please join our call if anything

Kaz: I confirm echonet used node-wot for plug-fest
… next point, even if Scripting API is a group note, it would be nice to publish a new note soon. It would be nice to publish updated Notes regularly when it becomes stable.

McCool: scripting api should be consistent with node-wot implementation

McCool: we may not need canonicalization yet

Zoltan: we discussed about versioning and node-wot alligment

Zoltan: node-wot should be alligned with normative spec

Lagally: why are we withdrawing canonicalization?

McCool: we can't have it without breaking backward compatibility

Lagally: I'm raising serious concerns if the TD removes the canonical form. Profile is dependent on it

<Zakim> kaz, you wanted to suggest we discuss that during the Editors call

marketing

Sebastian: time issue... maybe it is better to split it

Ege: marketing task force

moderator changings

Ege: Sebastian resigned as moderator
… after TPAC Fady Salama will chair testing
… and Ege Korkan will take over marketing

Kaz: I'm kind of surprised to see this "change" now. You should have mentioned this proposal beforehand. So would suggest this slide says "Chair Change Proposal" for today.

news

Ege: explainer video
… improved web page
… new logo animation
… new task force descriptions
… sebastian contributed with a new documentation page
… just a quick overview
… new tutorials by Philpp and a new one from TUM/Siemens
… we organized all the videos in our web page
… on twitter we are now 332 followers
… we have 6.1K impressions
… we now have 10.8K impression
… the video alone generated alone 13K
… content is critical to get good impression count

Daniel: statistics are very useful, but we need information about website visits

<sebastian> +1

Ege: w3c is already tracking but we don't have access to them
… no response from the w3c system team

Kaz: there were actually responses from w3c system team
… we just did not reach the final agreement yet

sebastian wraps up the session

Daniel: there's an error in the agenda

Sebastian: true it is 3 hours

<kaz> [adjourned]

Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by scribe.perl version 147 (Thu Jun 24 22:21:39 2021 UTC).