<AndySomers> Link regarding SSA legal blindness https://www.optometrystudents.com/pearl/updated-criteria-legal-blindness-us/

color vision deficiency

Jon: https://github.com/w3c/low-vision-a11y-tf/discussions/121

On CVD discussion thread , link provided.

Jon: Opens to Andy for discussion topic around CVD vs. color limited.

Andy: Clinical definition is Color Vision Deficiency, CVD, but acronyms are troublesome. Talks to color limited vs. color vision deficiency...brainstorms on what public would adopt and usage for neutral and descriptive

<jon_avila> q

Andy: Mix and Match pick on table, https://github.com/w3c/low-vision-a11y-tf/discussions/121#discussioncomment-1477679

<jon_avila> q

Andy: the move away from clinical to plain language would be beneficial.

Sam: I dislike acronyms and syllables , agree a lot with Andrew. Perhaps, color impaired , as it maps to mobility impaired , etc.

<jon_avila> q

Laura: May people dislike "earing impaired". with hearing it generally isn't used anymore.

Jon: To Shawn, do you think we'd need to push this to survey ?

<jon_avila> q

Laura: Color vision loss

Shawn: I think survey will get different perspectives, and not a clear answer. EO suggested perceives color differently . If within the WAI resources , replace it with color vision deficiencies. I appreciate if we are trying to do "X", but at this point, I don't know if coining a new term at moment is a priority for us.

Jon: We can talk it as color perception when we are talking to specific situations , who may or may not fall in to CVD

Shawn: Color perception differences - also has potential euphemism negative

<AndySomers> q

<jon_avila> q

Jon: Use term but also talk to color perception where we are able to

Andy: I don't like see color differently. I use color vision deficiency with whatever I write. I have been thinking a lot about plain language . It is an agenda item on scheme of things so at some point we perhaps change term officially. I think using color vision deficiency for now is ok, but there is a better way.
... There needs to be a adjective on limitation or restriction to be descriptive .

Jon: On our materials, it seems to be that CVD to be used now, but recognize that plain language would be used in future. Do people also agree?

<jon_avila> a

<jon_avila> q

Sam: I agree with CVD and plain language is a separate discussion off call.

<jon_avila> q

<shawn> +1 to change "color blindness" to "color vision deficiencies" in WAI materials such as https://github.com/w3c/low-vision-a11y-tf/discussions/121#discussioncomment-1444161

Chris: Perhaps bringing up with Silver and Jeanne on sub group of plain language

draft Text Guidance https://github.com/w3c/low-vision-a11y-tf/discussions/129

Jon: Talks to draft text guidance for boy text fluent readability. Talks to two users needs . This is an issue for everyone , 20/40 vision as well as low vision . Setting a minimum , medium weight , sufficient contrast
... we are trying to reach broad audience, but also low vision users in particular. I took Andy's work and broke it up into various sections. Then how it helps , description , how to get started , examples and references

<AndySomers> ++

Jon: section's content may change but attempted to put where it is most likely to be place. These things need to be done, it is not just about customization
... cross reference to WCAG and any related resources , should reference current and APCA to understand readability of content
... so body text, fluent readability , non text content , splitting that up via templates and implementing similar mock up / prototypes

<jon_avila> q

Jon: Opens up to perhaps Andy or others editing from here on out based on template.

Andy: Bullet points give clarity to main topic points. Skimming nature of reading and access to important information is beneficial.

Sam: First title , as to user needs. Is that what we settled on?

Jon: That is not settled on as title

Andy: Talks to user needs on silver's definition.

<Todd> +1 to Andy's point

Sam: Who it helps could be more descriptive , user story .

WAI has https://www.w3.org/WAI/people-use-web/user-stories/

Sam: Body text and fluent readability is about everyone reading text.
... I would like to see more about who needs text to be not too big , upper and lower bounded. I would like to talk to large text threshold would be bad, for x, y , z .
... for scrolling aspect when reviewing and reading.

<AndySomers> https://github.com/w3c/low-vision-a11y-tf/discussions/127

Andy: I also agree , on upper bound threshold

<laura> Silver's how tos use "Who it helps" https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/WCAG3/2021/how-tos/captions/

Andy: Talks to WCAG and WCAG3 , few examples around upper bound.

Jon: I think we are in agreement on the topic . We are high lighting the fact we need multiple user stories.

<jon_avila> q

Jon: things to solve , how to edit and who will do what .
... moving to a repo and do pull requests after we are done with main template.
... we can put this up for survey and people can talk to specific areas of concern, we can finalize the detail and move forward , for now, we can talk to TBD on numbers and thresholds. Any thoughts?

Sam: On the table of guidance and editing vs. my word document edits , are we doing line spacing separately ? Or size and contrast is another page ?

Andy: I have them all together , in work I've done.

Shawn: For supplemental guidance is main concern though.

Andy: All fits in to one singular standard, so should be on one page.

Sam: I hear the argument, it is a parameter around threshold around contrast , size, line spacing , it won't change ... perhaps looking at them as individual thresholds

Andy: I don't think they are separate

Shawn: We aren't setting guidelines in this group , we are around supplemental guidance.
... Our supplemental guidance should mention it, but not have different numbers , the standard will be more complex.

Jon: I don't using if do this, then do this is worthwhile in supplemental guidance , but acknowledge the factors .
... Providing too many details could be overwhelming.

Andy: There are complexities here. All of this built into the font, but not specifically correctly. Size of glyphs, etc. there is no standardization. We need to say how do we reference and this is adjusted to fit the reference standard . Doesn't need to be complicated .

<jon_avila> q

<Zakim> shawn, you wanted to comment on "Body Text Fluent Readability"

<jon_avila> q

Chris: Perhaps having a dependencies page which talks to interdependent aspect of how they all work together.

<jon_avila> q

<jon_avila> q

Sam: supplement guidance is around top level but then wrap them up to a parent of the detailed why and a deep dive on x, y, z

<AndySomers> I agree with Jon in nothing overly granular

<jon_avila> q

<AndySomers> Contrast is directly related to : weight, size, letter and line spacing and color distance

<Todd> +1 to Jon

Jon: I think that may be too granular , perhaps middle ground ....for example if we talk to inverse colors , this is tied to x, y, z and give values . Talk to light on dark and dark on light. Meeting in middle on topics and what can be covered.

Sam: Font size, font weight and contrast

<AndySomers> letter spacing/line spacing and font weight are interdependent

<jon_avila> q

Jon: We'd like to make progress that are within table . Other topics that someone would consider https://w3c.github.io/low-vision-a11y-tf/sandbox/Supplemental%20Guidance.html, not related to font , would you want to take action on items?

Sam: I put the word document together and would like agreement on topics of list of pages we want to have prior to working on it. We have the word document I sent , but also the HTML page.

Jon: On the word document, could you refresh my memory on the specifics?

Sam: Shares his word document on spot reading and visual appearance. Then goes into other items that relate to table, displays list of what is everything left to do.

I can no longer scribe, need to join a required training now for work, apologies.

<Todd> I have to go to another call.

<laura> Need to drop too.

<jon_avila> q

<jon_avila> q

<jon_avila> rrsagents, make minutes

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Default Present: ShawnLawtonHenry, SamWaller, JonAvila, CHrisLoiselle, ToddLibby, AndySomers, LauraCarlson, Todd, +
Present: ShawnLawtonHenry, SamWaller, JonAvila, CHrisLoiselle, ToddLibby, AndySomers, LauraCarlson, Todd
Regrets: Bhoomika, Bruce
Found Scribe: ChrisLoiselle
Inferring ScribeNick: ChrisLoiselle
Found Date: 21 Oct 2021
People with action items: 

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