W3C

– DRAFT –
ARIA Authoring Practices Task Force

28 September 2021

Attendees

Present
isaacdurazo, Jemma, jongund, MarkMcCarthy, Matt_King, Rich_Noah, sarah_higley
Regrets
-
Chair
Matt King
Scribe
jongund

Meeting minutes

PR Priorities

MK: Is the index problem is fixed?

RN: Jes can answer that

JD: I think everything is green now

MK: There was a random menu button problem

JD: We cannot recreate locally, but happends on the server

JG: That is my experience many times

MK: So those test are disabled?

RN: The issue is still open

JD: It's impossible for us to fix it if we can't recreate it

MK: I wonder if there is something within the Github, can you try with the bocoup server

JD: I will look into that

MK: I am trying to merge switch

MK: I have been looking at the button one

MK: Our previously took information related to the switch pattern

MK: It seems important to address this in the pattern, we still have wording comparing to a checkbox

MK: I am working on some language in the pattern and then use the language in each example

MK: I am curious about linking to similar examples of checkbox

JG: I vote no for now, make it similiar

JK: Why am I going for no

JG: Why confuse people with links to other widgets

MK: Menu button has its own pattern and toggle button does not

MK: We will just do in the pattern only, not int he example buttons

MK: I am considering the changes to the switch pattern editorial, so when I am done will just merge it

MK: I think we are close switch, but Jon added more accessibility feature language, I have some questions

<Jemma> https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/1895

MK: I will ask in the issue

MK: I think we have a purely coding issue, seems to be just coding, not an accessibility issue

MK: I will ask in the PR

<Jemma> https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/1895/commits/dd2535a277858d1a63d3d78e271bdafd31fb9d9d

MK: That's all I have on PR priorities

JG: Is there any discussion on what to do with all the examples that don;t meet our coding and documentation practices

MK: Working through the list from the coverage report

MK: We do not have project to go back and update old examples

JG: I am just curious about any discussion about it

MK: In the current PR list, looks like sortable table would be good to get into 1.2

MK: We want to get accordion done

MK: reading through list of PRs....

MK: We are way behind in getting ARIA 1.2 out

MK: At some point on we need to wait until the new website is out next year

JG: I am concerned about a lot of the old examples do not meet our current standards

MK: The new website will have a more immediate publication process

JK: So we labels for PR, this is process we are going to update the coding practices

MK: We will not get anything like that in 1.2

JK: We need a list of examples that need to be updated

JK: Trying to figure out how to get things updated

JG: I suggest we get back on our agenda

Redesign update

<isaacdurazo> https://github.com/w3c/apg-redesign/issues/5

ID: I documented the discussions from last week

ID: No other significant updates, we have been focusing on ARIA-AT project

ID: We be going back to determine the change priorities and issues

MK: Can we move on?

Accordian

<Jemma> https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/1830

SH: There are to PRs, I hope one can be merged

SH: The most important are the changes in behavior, I have updated the coding and the tests

SH: This one doesn't change the example, just the behavior

SH: Buttons within headings issue was raised by Siri

MK: This is all code and test

SH: The documentation is mostly removals

JG: I reviewed it and it looks good

MK: When it loads everything is collapsed

SH: The first one is open, but you can collapse it

MK: I assume it is expanded by default?

SH: I was minimizing changes from the original example

SH: This one is removing behaviors

MK: Did we have anything in the guidance about the arrow key behavior

SH: Yes

SH: I updated the documentation

MK: Aria-disabled been removed from the exmaple, but it is still in the pattern

SH: I didn't remove any

MK: We will prioritize this one for merging, focus on 1834

https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/1834

SH: I still have some documentation and test changes, if the behavior is what we want

SH: There is a basic classic accordian example

<Jemma> https://raw.githack.com/w3c/aria-practices/accordion-step-example/examples/accordion/accordion.html

MK: Do we want to call it, right now it is called accordian example

<Jemma> https://raw.githack.com/w3c/aria-practices/accordion-step-example/examples/accordion/accordion-group.html

MK: HOw do we distinguish the two

MK: The one that's called basic in the PR, we need to discuss the difference with the disclosure example, just the headings are the difference

SH: Yep

MK: In the accordion pattern, is there anything visually the same

SH: There is a visual difference, it's a blocky thing with a + and - icons

SH: The image one has an arrow

SH: The FAQ one could be an accordion, could use plus and minus instead of ..

MK: The presence of headers is a big difference to screen reader users

JN: We are not allowed to overriding definition with headings, so we needed to change that

MK: We are not doing that in the disclosure button example

<sarah_higley> https://w3c.github.io/aria-practices/examples/disclosure/disclosure-faq.html

MK: There is more visible in the collapsed that the header, there could be more things available, like moving the sections around or copy

MK: We do not have an example that demonstrates that

MK: What is the grouped one grouped?

SH: because there are dependencies on closing other sections, usually used in multi-step accordion group

MK: The key difference is one will always be open

MK: We should maybe create a name for that pattern, in other we use Switch using buttons for example

MK: We may want to describe, like accordion for a stepped process, so we don't need to define "grouped accordion"

JG: Sounds like a good idea to me

JG: I like when we describe what something is being used for, another way to identify waht they want to use

MK: Can only one be expanded?

SH: Only one can be expanded at a time

MK: So we can explain that i the example

MK: We need people to look at PR 1834

SH: It does removed the arrow key behavior and numbers 1,2,3, otherwise is very much the same

SH: I also updated the code, this reuses the accordion code and then adds according-group.js

MK: Is Brian on the call?

MK: Brian had this idea of making the behavior configurable in the code, is the group code support ..

SH: The accordion script is just opening and closing, accordion group closes other open sections

MK: These seem pretty straight forward to me, thank you Sara

MK: Any other questions about accordion

Tooltp

SH: I have the start of a draft

SH: Talked about defining the difference between a tooltip and toggletip, the description provides design guidance

SH: Form field with a tooltip and then tooltip for icon buttons

SH: Data visualization is using a lot of tooltips, I think there should be a behavior section, they need to respond to focus events

<sarah_higley> did the meeting just end?

<sarah_higley> :D

<Jemma> I joined back

SH: Some might open on touch start and touch end
… everyone got kicked off

JK: Let's go again

SH: Touch behavior is not something I have seen in the wild

MK: I have concerns about overriding long press

SH: I don't think we would change default

MK: A tooltip would appear and then disappear with long press, which seems to be less than a second for VO

MK: It might cause problem

MK: It gives one more suggestion not to use tooltip

SH: I do think you are right, but you have to actually press the trigger for long press

SH: Tooltip has problems with other AT like voice

MK: It you want to experiment, you can, but it feels risky to me

SH: Writing notes on the issue related to risky

MK: Do you have a draft in a PR?

SH: I have a draft in a gist

<Jemma> we have 2 min left for the meeting

SH: I need to put more time into this

MK: Do think we should have some illustrations in the pattern it's self

SH: I am in favor of that

MK: I am not sure how much time we have for this, the new ARIA 1.2 date maybe in october

MK: Might be a good thing for our redesign,, is that OK with you

SH: Yes

Siri: MOdal or disclosure?

<Jemma> I agree with Sarah

SH: For the toggle tips, I don't think they should be model, but for a toggle tip, people need to move focus around the page, so non-modal

Siri: There will be some modal and some non-modal?

MK: There seems to me to have some variations, I have seen both used successfully

MK: But you generalization I think its good, you don;t want to close the information to move to another art of the page

MK: What is the most common?

MK: The concept of being able to read the information, with a clear, basically you don't waht to fall outside of it, user perceives it as its own thing

Siri: I agree with MK, focus is paced in the popup, how do I know I am out of it?

MK: I am thinking of a form at work, where someone did a good job with a dialog

MK: We need to talk though what examples we want

SH: I will polish this a little more

Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by scribe.perl version 136 (Thu May 27 13:50:24 2021 UTC).

Diagnostics

Maybe present: ID, JD, JG, JK, JN, MK, RN, SH, Siri