W3C

Accessibility Conformance Testing Teleconference

19 Aug 2021

Attendees

Present
trevor, Todd, kathyeng
Regrets
Chair
SV_MEETING_CHAIR
Scribe
dmontalvo

Contents


<scribe> scribe: dmontalvo

ACT rules sheet

<Wilco> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1OSkPFocXk4K3zYLnwS78WLsWO4PvE5yRcsauyefuIUI/edit#gid=0

Wilco: You have the approvals you needed Trevor

Trevor: I think it is fine to merge

Wilco: Let's do that
... Marking related rules as accepted
... Kathy -- description track

Kathy: I did a PR, #1665, it needs another reviewer
... There are two rules related that only deal with the technique of the video description track
... But there is one rule that had already been migrated. Not sure if we want to pull that one back
... Row 68 on the Sheet, "Video element visual content has description track"

Wilco: Yes, this is used as part of those composite rules. That rule is taken out
... Does the PR change that description rule?

Kathy: No.

Wilco: That is how it should be. I think we are good. Can you review, Trevor?

Update website migration

ACT rules sheet

Kathy: Even though the PR do not touch rule 15, I think it should stay blocked, because we found that the description track does not work and we have passing examples

Wilco: That maps to an advisory technique, it is not a particularly useful rule
... We may not have any implementations, we may deprecate that rule actually

Kathy: If we have migrated rules they will stay as "proposed" in the WAI website

Wilco: Yes. I think we could figure out later what to do with them. There is something with this rule. Do you want to deprecate this rule? It would be more work.

Kathy: We can figure out what to do later. There is already a note there. It is fine

Update website migration

<Wilco> https://github.com/w3c/wcag-act-rules/issues/57

<Wilco> https://github.com/w3c/wcag-act-rules/issues/56

Wilco: Two issues that Shawn raised I am working on them. All of it seemed pretty straight forward. Changing "ACT rules" to "WCAG test rules"

<Wilco> https://deploy-preview-51--wai-wcag-act-rules.netlify.app/standards-guidelines/act/rules/html-page-non-empty-title-2779a5/

<Wilco> https://deploy-preview-51--wai-wcag-act-rules.netlify.app/standards-guidelines/act/rules/

Wilco: The two things I wanted to highlight
... In the rules page there are two lists: proposed and approved rules. I am renaming this to: WCAG2 Test rules, and list of proposed WAG2 test rules
... Shawn suggested some qualifier there. I don't much like that, because it seems like it puts it at the same level with respect to the other list, and that is the main list

Kathy: I think it is fine. I think they wanted some introductory paragraph explaining, I think the way you have it now is good.

Wilco: This work is almost done. I can bring it back to the group
... Also, I am not including a table of contents. We have a lot of headings in these pages. If we put a table of contents, the main content is pulled down
... I hope to get this into CFC next week

Open ACT pull requests

<Wilco> https://github.com/act-rules/act-rules.github.io/pulls

Wilco: A couple of things that we can merge now

Kathy: I think there is a few comments in the definition of accessability tree

<Wilco> https://github.com/act-rules/act-rules.github.io/pull/1684#discussion_r691926502

Kathy: I don't see a huge difference. Jean-Yves also suggested to put this in the "Background" section

Wilco: If you put this in the background it won't be included in the definition that shows up on the pages
... I don't feel strongly about that anyway

Kathy: I can look at it again and make changes. Are you saying not to put it in the "Background" section?

Wilco: The note could be, the thing about the hidden state should not
... Trevor, do you want me to merge the ones that are ready from your part?

Trevor: I don't think I have privileges

Wilco: Will give you privileges later

Surveying proposed rules

<Wilco> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1OSkPFocXk4K3zYLnwS78WLsWO4PvE5yRcsauyefuIUI/edit#gid=1858508967

Wilco: Survey closes now
... Five responses, nobody rejected
... Survey 1 tab
... for WCAG terminology I did not open an issue, I will
... Qy has some comments from Kathy, typo in the background
... That pr has already four approvals, so it can be merged
... Comments by Kathy in Q7.
... We could link to the understanding accessibility support document

Kathy: Could do
... I wonder if just including the sentence would cause more confusion to the reader

<Wilco> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/UNDERSTANDING-WCAG20/conformance.html#uc-accessibility-support-head

Wilco: The fundamental to the SC is that it is not well defined what things you should do to make this possible
... Like Aron said If you have a technology that overrides the style attribute,

Daniel: Feels to me like this rules are testing just a subset of scenarios. Hard to figure out how to broaden scope

Wilco: Kathy, are you happy if we take out the last sentence of the paragraph?

Kathy: O if we can explain it better

Wilco: I still don't know how we could explain it better, linking to the understanding accessibility support section is what comes to mind

Kathy: Maybe if we could just reword it so that the "if" part is not there

Wilco: Do you want to open a PR and try to rephrasing it?

Kathy: I am not clear on what this is trying to say

Wilco: If you are not interested in doing this with something like Stylish as part of the accessibility support, then this rule should not be used

Trevor: Other times we did this the other way around, like not all ATs support this way of doing things
... We may be almost changing the applicability with this last sentence

Daniel: Do you have examples of ATs not supporting things like Stylish?

Wilco: We tested this with bookmarklets and we assume this is the way to test
... Trevor, you have a point. We do not usually say "if you don't care about screen readers don't use the alt text rules"
... Screen readers are built as ATs, Stylish is not, but you can use it as such

Daniel: Interesting point. There are also other examples of things like TamperMonkey that are not ATs but can end up being used as sch

Wilco: This could be different in which you can have OS style sheets or browser-based style sheets, but I don't know of any browser that lets you adjust font size and letter spacing
... What if we just remove the accessibility support section?
... Does anyone know about an AT that can set user-origin style sheet?
... Mainly the windows high contrast tool

Todd: There is a bookmarklet that does text spacing

Wilco: As far as we know, all technologies that can do that are author-origin
... Either is you don't apply the SC or you have to support author-origin
... So is this more an assumption than an accessibility support issue?

Todd: I am leaning that way

Wilco: Not sure yet
... CSS works through the cascade sort. There are often conflicting rules, and CSS figures out which has the highest priority. User-origins always wins over author-origins.
... User-origins is what user sets via configuration. It is a style that the browser adds
... Author-origin is any style that is on the page already
... Because most browsers don't let you ay styles you want, the only way is to inject CSS into the page
... This is because using important is problematic, as it is not easy to use user-origin styles at the moment
... I'll see if I can come up with a proposal
... Is this a blocker?

Trevor: I am fine with that, the rest of the rule is pretty solid

Daniel: Not a blocker for me either

<scribe> ACTION: Wilco will propose and update text for the accessibility support section o this three rules

RESOLUTION: Rules are accepted as they are, agreed to work on updates later

Wilco: Skimming line-height rule
... Aron rejected this. We need to leave this for next week

Trevor: I have one question. For all of these rules, in the failed cases we say "recommended". Shall I put pull requests for that?

W3C Scheduling System

Wilco: There is a new one in place by W3C. Will try this out next week

Kathy: You need to log in to your W3C account, and there there is "My calendar" section

Wilco: It sends an invite to your email so that you can accept it with whatever calendar system you are using

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: Wilco will propose and update text for the accessibility support section o this three rules
 

Summary of Resolutions

  1. Rules are accepted as they are, agreed to work on updates later
[End of minutes]

Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl version 1.200 (CVS log)
$Date: 2021/08/19 14:52:52 $