Silver Conformance Options Subgroup

15 Jul 2021


bruce_bailey, jeanne, JF, PeterKorn, sajkaj, ToddLibby, Wilco_

Meeting minutes

Agenda Review & Administrative Items

<sajkaj> https://www.w3.org/2021/07/13-ag-minutes.html#resolution02

JS: agenda review - one item

JS: AGWG wants us to bring back a specific proposal on User Generated content
… I am hopeful User Generated will make August draft

User Generated https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/silver/wiki/User_Generated_Content

PK: [reads the new proposal for User Generated Content]

jeanne: a little concern that we have duplication of the definition in the Introduction second paragraph that could cause confusion

PK: There is repetion that needs to be refined
… the issue from AGWG raised of employees as being end users. "The official YouTube channel of X" -

JS: That is covered in the definition that it is excluded from User Generated

WF: How is it going to fit into WCAG3?

JS: It won't be just Text ALternatives, there will be bits that go in different places.
… Glossary
… Guideline by guideline. Makoto knows we want to add new Text Alternative text
… we need to introduce it in a few places

<Zakim> jeanne, you wanted to ask to reference the Alt Text ATAG method - https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/WCAG3/2020/methods/text-alternative-editable/

<Wilco_> Jeanne: I would like us to work a little closer with the method we have in FPWD on alternative text and authoring.


<Wilco_> ... In the description tag it's talking about an authoring tool. We could add something to the examples and tests, that would be helpful for this.

<Wilco_> ... If we wanted to link to this, then get feedback from Makoto, we could open a pull request.

<Wilco_> Janina: Do we need to refer to ATAG, or take language from it?

<Wilco_> Jeanne: We're better off doing it ourselves. The intention has been to incorporate ATAG and UAAG into WCAG 3 as methods.

<Wilco_> ... So we end up with two sections. Something for in the conformance section, in the glossary, and then for in the method.

PK: I'm wondering whether this is worth having it's own tab.

jeanne: We should work with Makoto, but I'm not sure what time he meets.

JS: I think this is a prototype of what we need

<Wilco_> Jeanne: I'd like to see new method design in for August.

jeanne: There is a new prototype of Method that Wilco has been working on.

<Wilco_> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1JVmquc7mLJaxZhypPbBhR99fEFBmc0YDn1Wz2Jcl_oY/edit#heading=h.9xoxf5cqf0jv

JS: What do we think our steps are?
… we have been directed by Silver, but now we are reporting to AGWG

<Wilco_> Jeanne: Within the next 2 weeks, we'd come back to AGWG with a new proposal. Based on their response we create the PR and then go for CfC

<Wilco_> Janina: I agee

jeanne: Change "Steps to Conform" to Conformance section: User Generated Content. Change Text Alternatives to "Updates to Author control of text alternatives" Method in Text Alternatives Guideline

PK: I want to keep the Use Cases in the proposal even though they are not going in the WCAG3 doc. Perhaps in the Explainer?

JS: What if your whole reason for existence is user generated content, like Craig's list?

PK: the "perhaps" covers whether there should be href ids.

PK: In the clearly identifying site: say "everything below the navigation is user generated"
… "In the product detail page, everything after the Product Reviews heading is user generated content"

JS: Because of COGA needs, which should be very structured about how we handle the content

PK: In our use case examples, we go further and say "this how one site does it, this is how another site does it, and both are valid"

JS: I took our old sentence "content developed by employees, contractors of the publishers of the site" are not user generated

PK: If I am an employee or contractor of PaymentFriend, and I have a section of Facebook for PaymentFriend, then we need to explicitly address whether or not I am an end user. Is Facebook the site at that point, or is PaymentFriend responsibility of Payment Friend?
… If I'm an employee of PaymentFriend and I post a movie review, is PaymentReview responsible for the movie review? There are many levels of gray.

<JF> Huge +1 to Peter's concern

PK: I am an empoloyee of AMazon, if I say something anywhere about accessibility, is that a statement of Amazon? Is Amazon responsible ofr the accessibility of my statement? This is very messy and could be very chilling of free speech.

JS: If you comment on the Dead Sea Scrolls, and you log in with your PaymentFriend employee id -- which would probably be brought in.

PK: When we bring in COGA and CLear Language requirements, we go beyond the accessibility that most people can accomplish. I worry how we are going to bring that into social media. It's an issue -- will Amazon be liable for the accessibility of statements that I make online? I worry about that.

<JF> +1 to Janina

JS: We specify in WCAG2 what is specific for web content. It isn't our job to do that. "I made a mistake" should be acceptable.

PK: By the time we get to a jury, the cost is prohibitive. Jeanne's example of $80K for a school system with one error.

<Zakim> JF, you wanted to note that "liability" is a legal construct, not a technical concerns

PK: I would rather say that "this proposal doesn't cover that scenario, which neeeds more discussion"

JF: Liability is a legal construct and W3C isn't in the business of deciding laws.

JF: I don't know if that is a propboem we can solve at our end.

<Wilco_> Jeanne: We're not responsible for legal, we are responsible for unintended consequences.

<Wilco_> ... We do have to think about what the consequences could be.

JS: I want to draw us back to Next Steps
… Therefore, as a result of what we just discussed...

<Zakim> jeanne, you wanted to say unintended consequences

PK: If we get into User Generated and say that some employees of some company might contribute to, and others where the employer could be held responsible for the accessibility of the posts of employees needs very careful discussion./
… [reads definition] I don't know what you are trying to do in that sentence.

JS: I'm thinking about the small business

JF: I think that emkployers being held responsible for posting of employees is an HR issue.

JS: Let's get back to the definition specifics. WHat language needs to be added?

PK: Let's write a note for that definition and ask for comments from the public.

JF: That's something we can do. That's actionable

PK: We don't have anything in WCAG2 today that addresses authoring that is on another's platform.

JS: Third party was never addressed or considered.

JS: Pull the sentence on CMS -- author arranged services -- it isn't part of User Generated.


Jeanne: I see User Generated on the schedule for 3 August

PK: Peter wants to take an additional breakout -- after we do the work today, is that we then return to the author-arranged media. Let's take that up next
… it could be separate pieces. People can say they like one or another.
… Let's get a clean media-only proposal that could be surveyed separately.

Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by scribe.perl version 136 (Thu May 27 13:50:24 2021 UTC).


Maybe present: JS, PK, WF