W3C

– DRAFT –
PEWG

23 June 2021

Attendees

Present
flackr, mustaq, smaug
Regrets
-
Chair
Patrick H. Lauke
Scribe
Patrick H. Lauke, Patrick_H_Lauke

Meeting minutes

Review 'Expand explanation for non-coalesced events' https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/pull/379 (in particular, use of "measurable" in the definition)

Patrick: [explains the conundrum we had with continuous/discrete / measurable/countable, etc]

Olli: concern about including/listing UI-Events ... are there more properties?

Rob: reason why i didn't want to list all properties, what if things change or other specs add more properties

Olli: think PR is quite close though

Rob: will see if there are suggestions to make on this

Mustaq: would also remove shiftkey/altkey/metakey as they don't fire pointer events at all

Rob: maybe we can even give the example about button not being continuous as the value just changes, you don't get the "in-between" values

Patrick: might be getting too deep into weeds of buttons which is not even our spec

Action: review this PR for next meeting and suggest changes by then

Review 'task queue is not reliable HTML concept. Use event loop instead' https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/pull/386

PLH: we are getting better at referencing, but other specs can tell when WE do bad referencing. task queue not reliable concept, so should use event loop

Patrick: defer to other people who are more knowledgeable

Olli: it's ... ok

Olli: technically you put a task into the queue...

Mustaq: the spec does handwave saying that "queue is not a queue"

PLH: we rely on DOM to fire event, so we don't have to say anything about when/how to fire

Patrick: so we happy to merge this?

[no concerns]

Action: merge and close

Review 'Simplify/clarify coalesced and predicted events' https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/pull/377

Rob: I should have more time soon, so can look at this for next meeting

Patrick: if anybody else also has any ideas, jump in. the PR is mostly ok, the last sticking point was the need to go into the targeting/retargeting (my PR was a bit too brutal in removing it altogether)

Action: Rob to review this PR and add suggested wording for the targeting issue

Unclear note about PointerEvent initialization of attributes to reflect coalesced events https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/issues/374

Rob: high-level purpose here is that developers don't need to care about the individual (non-coalesced) events, but just look at the fired events

Patrick: but is this going into the weeds of sometihng we don't want to define/that they shouldn't care?

Rob: this is just to reinforce/give an example

Rob: implementation shouldn't need to do this, but this is only an example

Patrick: any value in me having a stab at generalising this, without having to give a specific example?

Rob: movement is a good example though - it's a delta from the last change

Mustaq: we could say this without mentioning pointerlock

Rob: yes this is true even without pointerlock

Patrick: I might give a try proposing a slightly more generalised wording, without mentioning pointerlock, that achieves same

Action: Patrick to propose more generalised wording for the note

The behavior of getCoalescedEvent in pointerevent_constructor.html is inconsistent with the spec https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/issues/229

Patrick: is this going to be resolved by the work Rob is going to do on the PR?

Rob: we were going to say this is true for trusted events

Olli: will review this and the other related issues

"This API always returns at least one coalesced event for pointermove events and an empty list for other types of PointerEvents." https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/issues/224

How is pointer event ctor supposed to work when coalescedEvents is passed using the PointerEventInit https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/issues/223

Olli: I can try to write some PR

Action: Olli to review/propose PRs for these

HTML monkeypatching: initiate the drag-and-drop operation definition https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/issues/384 and HTML monkeypatching: animation frame callbacks https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/issues/385

Patrick: Starting with the drag and drop one #384

Olli: we should do this, but think it's still not possible to write platform test for d'n'd. at least wasn't last time

PLH: you agree we should add the spec the requirement to fire pointercancel etc?

Olli: that or add a hook

PLH: they declined to add a hook. asked for it to be exported

PLH: should i make a stab at this?

Olli: i don't have time for this right now

Mustaq: I can take a look

Patrick: you're it mustaq, assigned you. next up animation frame monkeypatching

Olli: ... it's about scheduling of tasks, and that's not defined anywhere. HTML spec lets you schedule tasks any way you want. maybe we should clarify somehow in PE spec, not sure how

PLH: domenic suggested adding a new function to fire pointer event

Olli: it's not even about pointer events...

Rob: it also doesn't have any well defined time WHEN you want to fire, you may want to do it before or after, depending on performance etc

Olli: implementations will likely change over time

Rob: we could say it should happen at some point between two points - producing a frame

Olli: even that could be not true / browser may choose to paint more and listen to events less, depending on priority. would prefer having plenty of flexibility

Patrick: i think it's a "soft" *may* we use in that sentence in the spec

https://w3c.github.io/pointerevents/#the-pointermove-event

Rob: only thing we can guarantee is that events will be dispatched in order

we would flush coalesced events before next fired event

PLH: we could remove the sentence altogether as we already say things in the specific coalesced events section

PLH: suggest either removing the sentence, or moving it to the section for coalesced. and we don't mention animation callbacks

<mustaq> https://w3c.github.io/pointerevents/#the-pointerrawupdate-event

Mustaq: there's also mention of animation (without link) in the pointerraw

Patrick: could we just change "which might be aligned to animation callbacks" to "which might be delayed"

Rob: we just need to say that raw events will not be delayed

Action: Patrick to write PR that removes the referenced animation frame callback sentence altogether and removes mention in pointerraw

Patrick: thank you all, see you in two weeks' time

hmm...seems to take a long time to generate these minutes. is the functionality working?

Summary of action items

  1. review this PR for next meeting and suggest changes by then
  2. merge and close
  3. Rob to review this PR and add suggested wording for the targeting issue
  4. Patrick to propose more generalised wording for the note
  5. Olli to review/propose PRs for these
  6. Patrick to write PR that removes the referenced animation frame callback sentence altogether and removes mention in pointerraw
Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by scribe.perl version 136 (Thu May 27 13:50:24 2021 UTC).

Diagnostics

No scribenick or scribe found. Guessed: Patrick_H_Lauke

Maybe present: Olli, Patrick, PLH, Rob