IRC log of aria-apg on 2021-06-22

Timestamps are in UTC.

17:44:44 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #aria-apg
17:44:44 [RRSAgent]
logging to https://www.w3.org/2021/06/22-aria-apg-irc
17:45:20 [Matt_King]
MEETING: ARIA Authoring Practices Task Force
17:45:26 [Matt_King]
present+
17:45:32 [Matt_King]
rrsagent, make log public
17:45:40 [Matt_King]
rrsagent, make minutes
17:45:40 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/06/22-aria-apg-minutes.html Matt_King
17:52:20 [Jemma]
present+
17:57:38 [isaacdurazo]
isaacdurazo has joined #aria-apg
17:58:16 [Jemma]
agenda+ setup and review agenda
17:58:47 [Jemma]
agenda+ html range slider example
17:59:09 [Jemma]
agenda+ jump-to short key
17:59:21 [Jemma]
s/short key/shortcut key
17:59:23 [Matt_King]
rrsagent, make minutes
17:59:23 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/06/22-aria-apg-minutes.html Matt_King
17:59:44 [Jemma]
agenda+ review of accordion widget
17:59:52 [Jemma]
agenda+ rating radios
18:00:08 [jongund]
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18:00:14 [Jemma]
agenda+ tree example: aria-selected
18:00:29 [Jemma]
agenda+ tooltip design draft
18:00:58 [Matt_King]
shair: Jemma
18:01:13 [Matt_King]
CHAIR: Jemma
18:03:23 [Matt_King]
scribe: matt_king
18:04:30 [Jemma]
s/fix/fixed
18:04:48 [Jemma]
s/fix/fixed/
18:05:10 [Rich_Noah]
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18:05:33 [MarkMcCarthy]
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18:05:38 [MarkMcCarthy]
present+
18:06:14 [isaacdurazo]
present+
18:06:28 [Rich_Noah]
present+
18:08:33 [Jemma]
zakim, next item
18:08:33 [Zakim]
agendum 1 -- setup and review agenda -- taken up [from Jemma]
18:09:36 [siri]
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18:09:57 [Jemma]
no meeting on the first two weeks of July?
18:12:21 [CurtBellew]
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18:12:32 [CurtBellew]
present+
18:12:43 [Matt_King]
No meeting july 6
18:12:54 [Matt_King]
Discussion of July 13
18:13:18 [Matt_King]
Jon: probably should not take 2 weeks off in a row; last work in backlog.
18:14:07 [Matt_King]
Update on redesign project.
18:14:19 [Matt_King]
Isaac: still welcoming feedback on wireframes.
18:14:38 [Matt_King]
this week started how to use template provided by E&O WG.
18:14:57 [Matt_King]
Working on how to fit current content into that template.
18:15:12 [Matt_King]
The current wireframe proposal is early rough draft.
18:15:30 [Matt_King]
Remember that this is going to be iterative.
18:17:02 [Matt_King]
mk: where publish content in e&o template?
18:17:12 [Matt_King]
gh-pages?
18:17:59 [Matt_King]
Jes: we could leverage existing netlify
18:18:38 [Matt_King]
zakim, next topic
18:18:38 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'next topic', Matt_King
18:18:41 [Jemma]
zakim, next item
18:18:41 [Zakim]
agendum 2 -- html range slider example -- taken up [from Jemma]
18:19:01 [isaacdurazo]
scribe: isaacdurazo
18:19:06 [Jemma]
https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/1757
18:19:35 [isaacdurazo]
Matt_King: not sure if these are resolved issues
18:19:42 [Jemma]
https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/1757#issuecomment-866205957
18:19:43 [isaacdurazo]
jon: just did an update
18:19:54 [isaacdurazo]
jon: think we are good
18:19:57 [Jemma]
"I changed the example to use the change and pointermove events and it is working on iOS and Android."
18:20:01 [isaacdurazo]
Matt_King: ok good. so we are using two events
18:20:42 [isaacdurazo]
Matt_King: so browser does support touch? dragging with touch?
18:21:07 [isaacdurazo]
jongund: it triggers event if you move pointer move event
18:21:28 [isaacdurazo]
Matt_King: ok so it means pointer is moved by VO. Correct?
18:21:37 [isaacdurazo]
jongund: seems to be working, yes
18:21:57 [isaacdurazo]
Matt_King: ok cool. sounds like pretty solid
18:22:06 [isaacdurazo]
Matt_King: whos signed up for reviews?
18:22:27 [isaacdurazo]
Matt_King: gonna do functional review
18:22:33 [isaacdurazo]
with screen readers
18:22:58 [isaacdurazo]
Jemma: you are done?
18:23:05 [isaacdurazo]
siri: think i done but will do it again
18:23:22 [isaacdurazo]
Jemma: ok please check off list
18:23:33 [isaacdurazo]
Jemma: Jes is possible to do code review?
18:24:05 [Jemma]
zakim, next item
18:24:05 [Zakim]
agendum 3 -- jump-to short key -- taken up [from Jemma]
18:24:30 [Jemma]
https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/1923#issuecomment-861760938
18:24:50 [isaacdurazo]
Matt_King: jon made comment on some keyboards.
18:24:51 [Jemma]
"
18:24:51 [Jemma]
Scripting the option+0 key for macOS may cause internationalization issues, since the the keypress for option+0 generates some character other than zero. I account for this special character in the current script, but if someone is not using English keyboard it could generate another character may not not work for them." by Jon
18:25:20 [isaacdurazo]
jongund: it works now in nelgish keyboards but will be fragile. if someone has a different keyboard.
18:25:32 [isaacdurazo]
jongund: something to be aware of. Maybe not a big deal?
18:26:09 [isaacdurazo]
Matt_King: are there any ways to make this more robust? Rich, Jes?
18:26:30 [isaacdurazo]
Rich_Noah: nothing really pups up
18:26:53 [isaacdurazo]
jongund: with key you will get a character.... idk
18:27:05 [Jemma]
s/pups/pops/
18:27:17 [isaacdurazo]
Matt_King: james, do you know any people that might have potential input on this topic?
18:27:24 [isaacdurazo]
jamesn: not off hand
18:27:33 [isaacdurazo]
Matt_King: everybody, is this a concern?
18:27:53 [isaacdurazo]
Matt_King: think we should merge... not sure if we should have an issue?
18:27:58 [isaacdurazo]
Jemma: thinking possible to add a note
18:28:04 [isaacdurazo]
Matt_King: this is part of the design
18:28:14 [isaacdurazo]
jongund: just merge it and see if people notices
18:28:21 [isaacdurazo]
Matt_King: we might run into this again
18:28:54 [Jemma]
agenda?
18:28:56 [isaacdurazo]
Matt_King: isaac and jess this is something to keep in mind
18:29:20 [Jemma]
zakim, next item
18:29:20 [Zakim]
agendum 4 -- review of accordion widget -- taken up [from Jemma]
18:29:24 [isaacdurazo]
Matt_King: ok just wanted to double check on thah concerns and make sure there are no red flags
18:29:45 [isaacdurazo]
Jemma: skipping next meeting agenda
18:30:01 [Jemma]
zakim, next item
18:30:01 [Zakim]
agendum 4 was just opened, Jemma
18:30:03 [isaacdurazo]
Matt_King: yah lets skip it and get time to talk about bryans work on tooltip
18:30:27 [Jemma]
zakim, take up item 4
18:30:27 [Zakim]
agendum 4 -- review of accordion widget -- taken up [from Jemma]
18:30:37 [Jemma]
zakim, take up item 5
18:30:37 [Zakim]
agendum 5 -- rating radios -- taken up [from Jemma]
18:30:54 [Jemma]
https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/1870
18:31:17 [isaacdurazo]
Matt_King: question about multiple radio groups examples
18:31:32 [isaacdurazo]
Matt_King: my concern is we have a radio group example (pizza example)
18:31:34 [Jemma]
rating radio example is https://raw.githack.com/w3c/aria-practices/radio-rating/examples/radio/radio-rating.html
18:31:52 [isaacdurazo]
Matt_King: then we'll also have this other radio group example (rating one)
18:32:24 [isaacdurazo]
Matt_King: this example allows to write about ratings vs ratings sliding and both perform similar but differences and pros and cons
18:32:46 [isaacdurazo]
Matt_King: my question is: idk we need to have a. unch of rating group examples
18:32:56 [isaacdurazo]
Matt_King: question of maybe too many examples
18:33:21 [isaacdurazo]
Matt_King: we should probably cconsider removing the pizza radio group and replacing with ratings rating group
18:33:32 [isaacdurazo]
Matt_King: jon, maybe you have some input on that
18:33:49 [isaacdurazo]
jongund: think original rating group example contrasting aria example and look like radio groups
18:33:51 [Jemma]
https://w3c.github.io/aria-practices/examples/radio/radio.html
18:33:58 [Jemma]
Radio Group Example Using Roving tabindex
18:34:00 [isaacdurazo]
jongund: visually look different
18:34:14 [isaacdurazo]
jongund: useful to have contrast
18:34:40 [Jemma]
https://raw.githack.com/w3c/aria-practices/radio-rating/examples/radio/radio-rating.html
18:34:49 [isaacdurazo]
jongund: i think the two pizzas one look the same but one uses active decendent and the other one...
18:34:53 [Jemma]
we are talking these two examples
18:35:02 [isaacdurazo]
jongund: rating too different
18:35:20 [isaacdurazo]
jongund: people might struggle connecting between pizza example and rating example
18:35:29 [isaacdurazo]
jongund: underneath they are different
18:35:39 [isaacdurazo]
jongund: dont think we hurt anybody if we keep them on
18:35:59 [isaacdurazo]
jongund: simpler pizza example might be easier to look at the code
18:36:22 [isaacdurazo]
Jemma: jon and matt i think i missed third example
18:36:40 [isaacdurazo]
Jemma: so we decide to keep these?
18:36:44 [siri]
+1 Jon
18:36:55 [isaacdurazo]
Matt_King: we'll three radio group examples
18:37:02 [isaacdurazo]
Jemma: ok
18:37:07 [Jemma]
Radio Group Example Using Roving tabindex
18:37:07 [Jemma]
Radio Group Example Using aria-activedescendant
18:37:09 [isaacdurazo]
Jemma: everyone agrees?
18:37:23 [Jemma]
agena?
18:37:28 [Jemma]
agenda?
18:37:29 [isaacdurazo]
Matt_King: lets make sure we have enough people looking at this
18:37:50 [Jemma]
https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/1870
18:38:00 [isaacdurazo]
jongund: I'll test on android and ios
18:38:10 [isaacdurazo]
siri: I'll do windows
18:38:20 [isaacdurazo]
jongund: can do mac os too
18:38:33 [isaacdurazo]
Matt_King: we should also have other people look at it
18:38:55 [isaacdurazo]
siri: oi can do windows and other kind of phone
18:39:21 [isaacdurazo]
Matt_King: I'm really curious about visual design review
18:40:52 [isaacdurazo]
Jemma: we might need to recruit people for visual design review
18:41:33 [isaacdurazo]
Jemma: please if anyone can recommend reviewers it would be appreciated
18:41:45 [Jemma]
zakim, next item
18:41:45 [Zakim]
agendum 4 -- review of accordion widget -- taken up [from Jemma]
18:42:08 [MarkMcCarthy]
zakim, close item 4
18:42:08 [Zakim]
agendum 4, review of accordion widget, closed
18:42:09 [Zakim]
I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
18:42:09 [Zakim]
6. tree example: aria-selected [from Jemma]
18:42:14 [MarkMcCarthy]
zakim, take up item 6
18:42:14 [Zakim]
agendum 6 -- tree example: aria-selected -- taken up [from Jemma]
18:42:53 [Jemma]
https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/1680
18:43:07 [Jemma]
https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/1869
18:43:39 [Jemma]
The ARIA 1.1 spec for treeitem requires aria-selected https://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria-1.1/#treeitem.
18:43:52 [isaacdurazo]
Matt_King: question about the issue more than PR. It says ARIA selected is required... wondering if people agree with the ARIA spec is requiring
18:44:36 [isaacdurazo]
Matt_King: tree example work without ARIA selecting but not performing an action
18:44:40 [isaacdurazo]
dont think we want to use selected
18:44:44 [isaacdurazo]
because we use current
18:44:57 [isaacdurazo]
MarkMcCarthy: if spec says we need to use selected... maybe we have a spec issue?
18:45:04 [isaacdurazo]
Jemma: James any comments about this?
18:45:17 [isaacdurazo]
jamesn: gonna have to research the issue and take a look
18:45:23 [isaacdurazo]
Jemma: would you leave a comment on the issue?
18:45:46 [isaacdurazo]
jamesn: how do you find that info?
18:45:52 [isaacdurazo]
jamesn: just lookng at the spec
18:46:15 [isaacdurazo]
jamesn: so also looking at latest editor draft?
18:46:17 [isaacdurazo]
jamesn: yes
18:46:32 [MarkMcCarthy]
s/MarkMcCarthy: if spec says we need to use selected... maybe we have a spec issue?/Matt_King: if spec says we need to use selected... maybe we have a spec issue?
18:46:34 [isaacdurazo]
jamesn: this is the whole aria selected stuff we went through.
18:46:50 [isaacdurazo]
Matt_King: this is a new language
18:46:56 [isaacdurazo]
jongund: aria 1.2 says is required
18:47:02 [isaacdurazo]
jamesn: yah it could be a bug
18:47:23 [isaacdurazo]
Matt_King: this is tricky for me. this will be apg 1.2 to support aria 1.2 spec
18:48:10 [isaacdurazo]
jamesn: in futurte we'll move to non version of apg
18:48:16 [isaacdurazo]
Matt_King: right
18:48:29 [isaacdurazo]
Matt_King: maybe we should add a note to the documentation
18:49:03 [isaacdurazo]
jamesn: what others things take aria seleected?
18:49:12 [isaacdurazo]
Matt_King: we put same language in option as well
18:49:19 [isaacdurazo]
Matt_King: dont remember anywhere else
18:49:55 [isaacdurazo]
jongund: tree item also has
18:50:13 [isaacdurazo]
Matt_King: gonna make a comment to this issue about the change comming to ARIA
18:50:56 [isaacdurazo]
Matt_King: the other tree example, the file tree one. Wondering if that one should be using selected
18:51:09 [isaacdurazo]
Matt_King: we could say is up to the browser to weather or not selected it
18:51:17 [isaacdurazo]
Matt_King: not really suer
18:52:04 [isaacdurazo]
Bryan: i think for a single select dont why would be necesary
18:52:17 [isaacdurazo]
only thing is that as behavioral thing when you have aria selected...
18:52:22 [isaacdurazo]
only then an element becomes exposed
18:52:30 [isaacdurazo]
Matt_King: oh on reading mode?
18:52:36 [isaacdurazo]
bryan: yes
18:52:46 [isaacdurazo]
Matt_King: ok true... maybe in file tree view
18:52:48 [MarkMcCarthy]
s/suer/sure
18:52:55 [Jemma]
https://w3c.github.io/aria/#treeitem
18:53:30 [isaacdurazo]
Matt_King: would you advocate for aria asertion? and required they should do?
18:53:41 [isaacdurazo]
Matt_King: doesnt have to be in the spec. strictly AT behaviour
18:54:21 [isaacdurazo]
Matt_King: this probably should be in the scope for this issue
18:54:34 [isaacdurazo]
Jemma: action item is for you matt to add a comment
18:54:38 [isaacdurazo]
Matt
18:54:47 [isaacdurazo]
ok I'll still be adding the same question
18:55:03 [isaacdurazo]
Matt_King: want to make sure question is clear
18:55:40 [isaacdurazo]
Matt_King: thanks Bryan for your work on tooltip. Are you able to join the call next week?
18:55:46 [isaacdurazo]
Bryan: yes I will
18:56:21 [Matt_King]
rrsagent, make minutes
18:56:21 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/06/22-aria-apg-minutes.html Matt_King
21:17:25 [Jemma]
zakim, close agenda item 4
21:17:25 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'close agenda item 4', Jemma