W3C

– DRAFT –
ARIA Authoring Practices Task Force

15 June 2021

Attendees

Present
brayan, jamesn, Jemma, Jes, MarkMcCarthy, Matt_King, richnoah
Regrets
car, Sarahigley
Chair
JaEun Jemma Ku
Scribe
siri

Meeting minutes

setup and review agenda

Announcement: Feedback on APG redesign project needed.

<Jemma> https://github.com/w3c/apg-redesign/issues/1

Jemma: please comment on this issue

RN: Request to have feedback by Friday

Matt: It will be continuous iteration, feed back will be helpful. Provide as much feedback as possible.

Skipto addon

<Jemma> Updated the example to use a scripted shortcut key: ** For Windows and Linux: Alt+0 ** macOS: Command+0

<Jemma> The appropriate keyboard short cut is now part of the button label.

<Jemma> Mobile devices currently do not have the scripted shortcut, or do want them to?

<Jemma> Need more investigation for why it shows for keyboard activation and not for mouse click to a menu item

Matt: Didn't have time comment on this PR. Have concern with cmd+0

<Jemma> mck:option+0 may be better?

Matt: Can we option+0 on MAC as cmd+0 is used for tabbing on Mac?

Jon: Do we want shortcut keys on mobile devices?

Matt: Access key should work for bluetooth keyboard for iOS

Jon: We can test on iOS and add it later for iOS

Matt: Fine with that approch

Jemma: Need someone to test on windows and MAC

Matt: Just need review for functional confirmation

Jemma: Template is not responsive so have hard time to test it on mobile

unicode symbols in CSS generated content

Matt: We talked about at end of call and made no decision

<Jemma> https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/1876

<Jemma> https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/1876#issuecomment-858070613

<Jemma> most recent comment by simon

Matt: Bryan is using in some of his work like down arrows etc. We came to conclusion, if this done then should be placed in seperate <span> with aria-hidden="true"

<Jemma> "The accessible name could be set with aria-label to something else, or maybe it could be removed with aria-hidden="true" if the other ARIA attributes already provide enough information and the triangle is only there to help visual users. I'm not sure what is best here." by simon

Matt: Talking about public useful recognize one

Jemma: public vs private

James: unicode should be pronounced all AT when used in private should not be pronounced.

<Jemma> http://www.unicode.org/faq/private_use.html

Developers can use their own for private use should be pronounced

Jemma: we are talking about cases like down pointing triangle, right pointing triangle

<Jemma> https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/1876

<Jemma> https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/1651

Matt: This question is raised by Simon in issue#1876

Matt: An open question. Our decision is that it is acceptable. Use <span aria-hidden="true"> to hide it from AT

James: Most unicode characters have equivalent text to them

Matt: It is acceptable, if there is case to choose between unicode and SVG, go with SVG

James: Don't have usecase saying that aria-hidden is required for all unicode characters.

Summary for this issue, Consider use of unicode to indicate the presence of menu or state of the component

like collapse/expand

unicode symbols in CSS generated content

Review on Accordion widget

<Jemma> Review on Accordion Widget

<Jemma> PR 1380

<Jemma> PR 1834

<Jemma> PR 1852

<Jemma> https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/1830

<Jemma> https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/1834

Jon: Question regarding Mac OS

<Jemma> https://raw.githack.com/w3c/aria-practices/accordion-step-example/examples/accordion/accordion.html

<Jemma> https://raw.githack.com/w3c/aria-practices/accordion-step-example/examples/accordion/accordion-group.html

Matt: All accordion will be collapsed by default

Matt: Alternative example with different content how to code when you want one accordion expand all time

Matt: that is reason for two examples in the issue

Jon: Tested on Mac OS work fine but when I use item navigation it announces the heading and region skipping the button. Update the issue with my comments.

Jon: Is this VO issue?

Matt: VO will tell heading level3 , 3 items

Matt: VO will tell you what's there in the heading and don't ignore it.

Matt: The fact that it works fine with one example , so there might be an APG bug

<Jemma> https://raw.githack.com/w3c/aria-practices/accordion-step-example/examples/accordion/accordion-group.html

Jemma: Jon, can you update issue with your comments

Jon: Another issue, using aria-required for some components. We are modeling use of aria properties when we can use HTML property

Matt: We don't need that in the accordion issue

Jon: aria-hidden property is not document

Matt: get rid of aria-hidden and aria-required attributes from this example

Discuss tooltip example assignment

<Jemma> agenda

<Jemma> https://www.w3.org/2021/05/18-aria-apg-minutes.html#t05

Matt: summary: In the tooltip pattern, there are no consensus on making accessible tool tips other than input elements

Don't remember discussion around checkbox and radio

Will anyone draft some language related to constraints we discussed

Jemma: There many examples focused on design, may be we can draft a summary and create a design spec for it and assign to people to develop it.

<Jemma> mck: remove hover, work for touch would be good.

Matt: Trying get people at my company on the bandwagon of hover of all kinds needs to be wiped off the map

Matt: They are not accessible on hover

<Jemma> james: using "toggle tip" by Sarah would be a good strategy.

Matt: Write on tooltip like "Bad idea and don't even bother them"

Matt: Not going to get rid of tooltip. Will ask for voulunteers in few weeks

<Jemma> http://scottaohara.github.io/a11y_tooltips/

Bryan: I don't have any written guideline that explains differences

<Jemma> https://github.com/scottaohara/a11y_tooltips

Bryan: will create a list and send to the group This will serve as basis

Jemma: Assign the tooltip issue to Bryan so that he can draft tootip pattern in it

<Jemma> https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/128

Bryan will draft a tootip design pattern based on his examples and knwoledge

Matt: In accordion example always forcing one button to expand.

Jon: Why are we using aria-disabled over disabled attribute?

Jon: VO, when aria-disabled is used you can tab to the button but narrates it as heading

Jon: Visually looks clickable but nothing happens

Matt: is it jarring when you click it, the button goes away

Jon: Suggest to use disabled property but it is decided to use aria-disabled property instead

Jemma: button should be visually and programmatically disabled.

<Jemma> https://raw.githack.com/w3c/aria-practices/accordion-step-example/examples/accordion/accordion-group.html

https://raw.githack.com/w3c/aria-practices/accordion-step-example/examples/accordion/accordion-group.html

<Jemma> rragent, make minutes

Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by scribe.perl version 136 (Thu May 27 13:50:24 2021 UTC).

Diagnostics

Maybe present: Bryan, James, Jon, Matt, RN