WAI Coordination Call Teleconference

21 Apr 2021


George, joconnor, becky, brentb, stevelee, shawn, Kim_patch, Katie_Haritos-Shea, janina, ChrisLoiselle, Chuck, tzviya, MichaelC, jeanne, brent, Judy, Rachael, jamesn


<Judy> clear agenda

<scribe> scribe: Chuck

Judy: Can anybody take a look at the link and look for changes, additions, subtractions?

[Update] Upcoming work and publications https://www.w3.org/WAI/cc/wiki/WAI_Announcement_Drafts

<Zakim> jeanne, you wanted to say WCAG3

Jeanne: Looking at doing a heartbeat publication for WCAG 3 in May.
... Need to get started working on that.

Judy: Michael updated me yesterday. I'm interested in that.
... To keep the pace.

Jeanne: yes.
... That's all, taking advantage of the request to add.

Judy: I might have a conflict.
... You are on track to publish in may?

Jeanne: Yes, I'll add a section to the announcements.

Judy: Thanks. I understand that may be difficult. After the first one and wide review, it's easier to keep the pace, particularly if there are a lot of different comments coming in.
... So that issues don't brew. But you have to annotate in the spec carefully to show what you are working on and haven't fixed yet. Requires a different communication.
... I assume you are hearing from the AGWG chairs. It's a mode that serves well.

Jeanne: Won't require wide review.

Judy: Keeps tensions down when there are many diverse views.
... Anything else in terms of publications? Jeanne will you start the messaging on that?

Jeanne: I'll start it. We'll do more work with chairs. Just setting it up now.

Judy: At the beginning of the call. I'm free for conversation with you on Friday.

Jeanne: Let's check with Michael, so he can be included.

Judy: Has everybody looked at what's in the draft announcements?

JN: We need to add ARIA 1.3, soon-ish.

Judy: Great to hear. Anybody else?

Scribe, rrsagent, agenda check, confirming next meeting MAY 5. Please add your present+ to IRC.

[FYI] Process "W3C Statements": PLH brief visit May 5: https://www.w3.org/Consortium/Process/Drafts/#note-track

Judy: Last meeting and previous we mentioned a W3C process community group for statements, people asked for a dedicated subject line.
... I asked Phillipe if he would visit the coordination call to ask questions. he is, but he can't today. He's scheduled to join next meeting for first 15.
... It would be good if everybody reads this.

George: The community group is preparing this report for the W3C.
... On notes that make their way into statements. Correct?

Judy: I'm going to shift that a bit. There's a process community group. Every year they look for opportunities to update the process. One is to update and streamline.
... Another is to better reflect emerging needs. Tzviya can correct me if I'm incorrect.

<tzviya> https://www.w3.org/community/w3process/

Judy: This year one thing that queued up is a possible/additional tweaks to the note section. There's rec and there's notes. 2 different types of tech reprots.
... This new notes thing is a statement that has a higher level of vetting.

George: I'm happy with those statements. Community group can't do notes?

Judy: CG can't do working group notes and w3c statements.
... There's separately what community groups can publish, but to further differentiate them from a chartered working group publication or a w3c recommendation.
... You might be interested in that as well.

George: Right. Thinking that there's some important community group activities targeted publishing around meta data and conformance and discovery.
... It isn't in the charter of the working group to do this. It is in the charter to update the conformance and discovery specs.
... Right now it's owned by the community group and no work.

Judy: Not clear what you are looking for. Are you interested in the statement or what cg's can do?

George: Both. Seems clear from current process that a cg report stays at that level with no w3c blessing.

Judy: That's the intention. It's strongly to avoid confusing... one of the motivators is the horizontal review group. ...not obligated to be vetted that W3C work products are.
... Any time you are trying to elevate the standing of a publication out of a cg, you are actively bypassing the protection of the W3C.
... "Be careful what you wish for..."

<Judy> Here is the link again to what they are exploring https://www.w3.org/Consortium/Process/Drafts/#note-track

George: Would it be ligitimate for a cg to produce a report and base on that report do a charter in a wg to elevate to rec.

Judy: Yes. Using a cg to incubate something to test its maturity for building a charter around to take through the process steps of horizontal review...
... To a happy rec at the end of the track ...
... That's what cg's are there for. That's their original and primary purpose.

George: Thank you.

Judy: Back tot he group, we are seeing...
... Here's a q for everybody. I'm seeing interesting content come out of cg.
... How many people would be interested in hearing Phillipe or Tzviya discuss.

<janina> +1 to plh

Tzviya: I'm not the best to discuss.

<jeanne> +1 to plh

<brent> +1

Judy: We are getting plh. What we make him talk about is the issue. I'll tell him he needs to talk about both.

Janina: Captcha... elevated to a w3c statement.

Judy: Send something to us and Phillipe. I'll mention the captcha as an example.
... George feel free to raise digital publishing.
... Anything else?

[FYI] Intersections between Immersive Captions CG and other WAI groups: Christopher Patnoe brief visit, May 19

Judy: I may have mentioned a few times... the w3c cg area that has 100s of groups, we typically do not assign staff.
... If you a wg you get a team contact. For cg staff was barred originally.
... Over the years that's evolved, and we do now allocate some resources.
... Immersive captions group focuses on captions for support for people who are hard of hearing or deaf, in virtual and a/r environments.
... There is strong participation from the deaf community.
... Which is lacking in a lot of our WAI work.
... Some of the participants are getting more interested in the work of other groups. Half a dozen interested in the research task force.
... I've been trying to invite people from this group into that group, but time doesn't work out well.
... I've invited Christopher to this group.
... Chris Hughs has been gathering requirements.
... I took the liberty to see if he could join a later meeting. May 19th possible. He can tell you about the work.
... To see if there's anything that ARIA or AGWG or 3.0 could pick up or intersect.
... Brent if there's ER stuff. Or digital publishing. Kim for mobile, Steve for Coga. Janina for any of the specs.
... that's the purpose of that call. Is it ok to invite a few more folk?

Chuck: no objections at all.

Tzviya: Are there deaf/mute people in the group?

Judy: I'm reacting to the term. There are people with a number of communication things... we have interpreters...
... We can arrange professional captioning. We'll see what's needed for that call.

<Kim_patch> n

Tzviya: In terms of people with multiple disabilities, a peer had an author who is both deaf and blind and had to re-engineer his platform.

Judy: We don't have deaf/blind people participating. We occasionally have interest in commenting on WAI work. We will arrange that accommodation.
... Anything else?
... Any particular questions that people want to queue up?
... Brent, how much participation is EO getting?
... People who are deaf and members of the wg.

Brent: Of active participants, 20-30%.
... Sorry, thinking blind.
... I don't think we have anybody. It would be nice to get that perspective.

Judy: For WCAG 3.0, how much hard of hearing and deaf participation have you been getting in research or meetings?
... Zero. We had one who wanted to participate, and we had to get funding from Amazon. She never attended a meeting even though we set up captioning.

s /Judy/Jeanne/

janina: She did show up a few times in a sub group.

Judy: WAI can cover this, Amazon did originally. We have covered interpreters before.

Tzviya: In the positive work environment group we will do a broad survey about participation, about developer life in general. It would be good to include something for disabilities.
... That could help inform us if we can word it well.

<brent> Cover on a weekly basis with real time captioning services? for an active participant.

Judy: While we are on that, thanks. The biggest predictor in participation rate on surveys about diversity is clear and strong assurances of confidentiality on responses.

<jeanne> +1 huge +1 because we need to know scope

Judy: some questions may not be well received in all countries. Some countries may have gender diversity challenges or other preferences.
... And job discrimination. Thank you for the reminder.

Janina: Strangest question was a complaint from someone who uses braille that telecoms go too fast. We can't ask telecoms to go slower.

<jeanne> Jeanne also added that we have received feedback from one deaf researcher in the FPWD comments

Judy: I'm thinking, maybe we need to have a conversation about the kinds of ... WAI tries to be cross-disability inclusive. We don't always succeed, otherwise it wouldn't be hard to get some guidance off the ground.
... I'm wondering if we should maybe have a discussion about how to entertain user requirements that are outside of our typical experience.
... I have a lot of thoughts to what you just said.

Jeanne: I'd like to see us consider having interpreter services, a contract, on a regular basis so that we aren't in a situation where we can answer positively for accommodation requests.
... At the moment it is not welcoming. I understand there is a cost factor. But whatever we can do to make it more welcoming would be beneficial.

Judy: In progress! I can give a general sense of the goals and a personal sense.
... To have interpreters in place in every meeting on a regular basis w/o tying it to who's trying to participate in the meeting is not viable. for large events we are trying to do that.
... To have those services by default.
... For 40 or more working groups, maybe 120 tf and sub-groups, to have interpreters for each all the time, would be difficult to get. But we are trying to make clearer how to request, w/ shorter turn-around.
... All of those are doable. Conversation is not going fast, but it is in progress. Does that help?

<jeanne> +1 for budget

Jeanne: Yes.

Judy: I want to ask people, I've heard "w3c" doesn't cover captions or interpreters. Not true. We do accommodate. Policies don't exist yet, but in progress.

Janina: What happened with Amazon is Peter jumped and offered. It was before there was any discussion.

Judy: That's different from WAI refusing. We were eventually asked about transfering.
... The recent thing is a happy problem, the advanced timeline for requesting real time captioning has gone from a few days to a few weeks because of the demand for captioning is going up.
... I don't know if the same is true for interpreters.

Janina: A category I don't know what we do with is the deaf/blind, initially deaf, and loses sight, and does not know braille.

Judy: There is a way of providing that accommodation. Learned how to accommodate the entire range.
... rehab agencies do not provide advanced literacy training. Organizations can pay for a local interpreter.
... This is more involved than I thought. I appreciate the views on this. Useful to have a follow-up to more easily support the requests, or better to see the materials?

Chuck: Wait for materials.

<Zakim> jeanne, you wanted to say that we need ongoing interpreters so that people feel welcome

Tzviya: I and peers would like to see.... poorly documented for everyone. I don't think this belong in the process. I don't know who owns documentation.

Judy: Myself, Alex, and Ralph. We are working together.

Tzviya: I'd like to see a document.
... Often when I sign up there's a q on accommodation needs. If we don't have docs we should. If I need this for a meeting, it should be included as documentation for chairs.

Judy: That's what is planned. I've received an updated draft. I'll reply soon.
... It's for certain type of event. I'm going to get guidance for all of them. I'm assuring the WAI groups, please ping me and team contact. So nobody thinks that they are without the means to provide an accommodation.

Brent: If EO had a participant join who is deaf, it would be an accommodation for captioning or real time captioning, that would be paid for by W3C for all the wg meetings?

Judy: It needs to not be an issue.

Brent: Right, I don't want to have to say "we have to figure this out". If we have a participant who needs and comes to all the meetings, we will assume that we will have a captioner?

Judy: We are the default payer. ...different people have provided interpreters. By default, WAI will pay if there is not another payer for a meeting in a wai group.
... One thing to keep in mind, captions may work for typing what people are saying, but if someone is deaf, and and their speech is not clear to some others clear... it's important to figure out the right communication mode.
... Some people may not know ASL.
... I have a much better idea of what kinds of questions and assumptions people might have had. Better documentation is needed. I'll show drafts as they become available.
... Brent, what do you want to say to folk and what kind of feedback are you getting?

Brent: The survey created by Shadi (template) for us to use the videos. Nobody could get access to that, we fixed that. We did a redirect and figured out how to make public.
... We have 10 video scripts. The email says who stepped forward and asked to review the scripts. I added that in there. If there are others please let me know.
... I'll also send to the wai cc group, so it can be shared. We need to stick to the deadlines. If someone needs additional time we'll keep open if needed.
... We'll speak at AGWG on the 27th to talk about in detail what's involved in the project.
... In the repository there is an about.me that describes what we are looking for in the reviews.
... It's just a matter of people being aware that we want the stakeholders involved. There's a small group that is creating the scripts and doing initial editing and reviewing.
... When polished, we then bring to EO and get a thorough review. We bring it to everyone at that same point, to get early review.

Judy: Thanks for the update.

<brent> Batch 1 survey being discussed: https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/1/WCAGvideos_batch1thorough/

Judy: One thing I wonder. The comments from chairs and facilitators would be high level on approach, not on nitty gritty.
... I'm curious if others think if that's a good guess. Or do you think that there are areas of the video that you want to look at in detail.
... Are people planning on looking at these?

Brent: At the end of every survey, we have a q for other comments. They can add any topic at the end of the survey. We are getting a bit of feedback on the scripts.
... We tend to see things like... "instead of using someone with low vision, use someone from the cognitive group."

<George> In my todo queue

Judy: That's the level of reading the room, to see if anybody has any general or specifics.
... We do find that these are good way to dive into it.

<brent> Kim has responded to survey already

Judy: Not enough time to go into details on rest of agenda. Any other topics?

Summary of Action Items

Summary of Resolutions

[End of minutes]

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Default Present: George, joconnor, becky, brentb, stevelee, shawn, Kim_patch, Katie_Haritos-Shea, janina, ChrisLoiselle, Chuck, tzviya, MichaelC, jeanne, brent, Judy, Rachael, jamesn
Present: George, joconnor, becky, brentb, stevelee, shawn, Kim_patch, Katie_Haritos-Shea, janina, ChrisLoiselle, Chuck, tzviya, MichaelC, jeanne, brent, Judy, Rachael, jamesn
Found Scribe: Chuck
Inferring ScribeNick: Chuck

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Found Date: 21 Apr 2021
People with action items: 

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