<Judy> clear agenda
<scribe> scribe: Chuck
Judy: Can anybody take a look at the link and look for changes, additions, subtractions?
<Zakim> jeanne, you wanted to say WCAG3
Jeanne: Looking at doing a
heartbeat publication for WCAG 3 in May.
... Need to get started working on that.
Judy: Michael updated me
yesterday. I'm interested in that.
... To keep the pace.
Jeanne: yes.
... That's all, taking advantage of the request to add.
Judy: I might have a
conflict.
... You are on track to publish in may?
Jeanne: Yes, I'll add a section to the announcements.
Judy: Thanks. I understand that
may be difficult. After the first one and wide review, it's
easier to keep the pace, particularly if there are a lot of
different comments coming in.
... So that issues don't brew. But you have to annotate in the
spec carefully to show what you are working on and haven't
fixed yet. Requires a different communication.
... I assume you are hearing from the AGWG chairs. It's a mode
that serves well.
Jeanne: Won't require wide review.
Judy: Keeps tensions down when
there are many diverse views.
... Anything else in terms of publications? Jeanne will you
start the messaging on that?
Jeanne: I'll start it. We'll do more work with chairs. Just setting it up now.
Judy: At the beginning of the call. I'm free for conversation with you on Friday.
Jeanne: Let's check with Michael, so he can be included.
Judy: Has everybody looked at what's in the draft announcements?
JN: We need to add ARIA 1.3, soon-ish.
Judy: Great to hear. Anybody else?
Judy: Last meeting and previous
we mentioned a W3C process community group for statements,
people asked for a dedicated subject line.
... I asked Phillipe if he would visit the coordination call to
ask questions. he is, but he can't today. He's scheduled to
join next meeting for first 15.
... It would be good if everybody reads this.
George: The community group is
preparing this report for the W3C.
... On notes that make their way into statements. Correct?
Judy: I'm going to shift that a
bit. There's a process community group. Every year they look
for opportunities to update the process. One is to update and
streamline.
... Another is to better reflect emerging needs. Tzviya can
correct me if I'm incorrect.
<tzviya> https://www.w3.org/community/w3process/
Judy: This year one thing that
queued up is a possible/additional tweaks to the note section.
There's rec and there's notes. 2 different types of tech
reprots.
... This new notes thing is a statement that has a higher level
of vetting.
George: I'm happy with those statements. Community group can't do notes?
Judy: CG can't do working group
notes and w3c statements.
... There's separately what community groups can publish, but
to further differentiate them from a chartered working group
publication or a w3c recommendation.
... You might be interested in that as well.
George: Right. Thinking that
there's some important community group activities targeted
publishing around meta data and conformance and
discovery.
... It isn't in the charter of the working group to do this. It
is in the charter to update the conformance and discovery
specs.
... Right now it's owned by the community group and no
work.
Judy: Not clear what you are looking for. Are you interested in the statement or what cg's can do?
George: Both. Seems clear from current process that a cg report stays at that level with no w3c blessing.
Judy: That's the intention. It's
strongly to avoid confusing... one of the motivators is the
horizontal review group. ...not obligated to be vetted that W3C
work products are.
... Any time you are trying to elevate the standing of a
publication out of a cg, you are actively bypassing the
protection of the W3C.
... "Be careful what you wish for..."
<Judy> Here is the link again to what they are exploring https://www.w3.org/Consortium/Process/Drafts/#note-track
George: Would it be ligitimate for a cg to produce a report and base on that report do a charter in a wg to elevate to rec.
Judy: Yes. Using a cg to incubate
something to test its maturity for building a charter around to
take through the process steps of horizontal review...
... To a happy rec at the end of the track ...
... That's what cg's are there for. That's their original and
primary purpose.
George: Thank you.
Judy: Back tot he group, we are
seeing...
... Here's a q for everybody. I'm seeing interesting content
come out of cg.
... How many people would be interested in hearing Phillipe or
Tzviya discuss.
<janina> +1 to plh
Tzviya: I'm not the best to discuss.
<jeanne> +1 to plh
<brent> +1
Judy: We are getting plh. What we make him talk about is the issue. I'll tell him he needs to talk about both.
Janina: Captcha... elevated to a w3c statement.
Judy: Send something to us and
Phillipe. I'll mention the captcha as an example.
... George feel free to raise digital publishing.
... Anything else?
Judy: I may have mentioned a few
times... the w3c cg area that has 100s of groups, we typically
do not assign staff.
... If you a wg you get a team contact. For cg staff was barred
originally.
... Over the years that's evolved, and we do now allocate some
resources.
... Immersive captions group focuses on captions for support
for people who are hard of hearing or deaf, in virtual and a/r
environments.
... There is strong participation from the deaf
community.
... Which is lacking in a lot of our WAI work.
... Some of the participants are getting more interested in the
work of other groups. Half a dozen interested in the research
task force.
... I've been trying to invite people from this group into that
group, but time doesn't work out well.
... I've invited Christopher to this group.
... Chris Hughs has been gathering requirements.
... I took the liberty to see if he could join a later meeting.
May 19th possible. He can tell you about the work.
... To see if there's anything that ARIA or AGWG or 3.0 could
pick up or intersect.
... Brent if there's ER stuff. Or digital publishing. Kim for
mobile, Steve for Coga. Janina for any of the specs.
... that's the purpose of that call. Is it ok to invite a few
more folk?
Chuck: no objections at all.
Tzviya: Are there deaf/mute people in the group?
Judy: I'm reacting to the term.
There are people with a number of communication things... we
have interpreters...
... We can arrange professional captioning. We'll see what's
needed for that call.
<Kim_patch> n
Tzviya: In terms of people with multiple disabilities, a peer had an author who is both deaf and blind and had to re-engineer his platform.
Judy: We don't have deaf/blind
people participating. We occasionally have interest in
commenting on WAI work. We will arrange that
accommodation.
... Anything else?
... Any particular questions that people want to queue
up?
... Brent, how much participation is EO getting?
... People who are deaf and members of the wg.
Brent: Of active participants,
20-30%.
... Sorry, thinking blind.
... I don't think we have anybody. It would be nice to get that
perspective.
Judy: For WCAG 3.0, how much hard
of hearing and deaf participation have you been getting in
research or meetings?
... Zero. We had one who wanted to participate, and we had to
get funding from Amazon. She never attended a meeting even
though we set up captioning.
s /Judy/Jeanne/
janina: She did show up a few times in a sub group.
Judy: WAI can cover this, Amazon did originally. We have covered interpreters before.
Tzviya: In the positive work
environment group we will do a broad survey about
participation, about developer life in general. It would be
good to include something for disabilities.
... That could help inform us if we can word it well.
<brent> Cover on a weekly basis with real time captioning services? for an active participant.
Judy: While we are on that, thanks. The biggest predictor in participation rate on surveys about diversity is clear and strong assurances of confidentiality on responses.
<jeanne> +1 huge +1 because we need to know scope
Judy: some questions may not be
well received in all countries. Some countries may have gender
diversity challenges or other preferences.
... And job discrimination. Thank you for the reminder.
Janina: Strangest question was a complaint from someone who uses braille that telecoms go too fast. We can't ask telecoms to go slower.
<jeanne> Jeanne also added that we have received feedback from one deaf researcher in the FPWD comments
Judy: I'm thinking, maybe we need
to have a conversation about the kinds of ... WAI tries to be
cross-disability inclusive. We don't always succeed, otherwise
it wouldn't be hard to get some guidance off the ground.
... I'm wondering if we should maybe have a discussion about
how to entertain user requirements that are outside of our
typical experience.
... I have a lot of thoughts to what you just said.
Jeanne: I'd like to see us
consider having interpreter services, a contract, on a regular
basis so that we aren't in a situation where we can answer
positively for accommodation requests.
... At the moment it is not welcoming. I understand there is a
cost factor. But whatever we can do to make it more welcoming
would be beneficial.
Judy: In progress! I can give a
general sense of the goals and a personal sense.
... To have interpreters in place in every meeting on a regular
basis w/o tying it to who's trying to participate in the
meeting is not viable. for large events we are trying to do
that.
... To have those services by default.
... For 40 or more working groups, maybe 120 tf and sub-groups,
to have interpreters for each all the time, would be difficult
to get. But we are trying to make clearer how to request, w/
shorter turn-around.
... All of those are doable. Conversation is not going fast,
but it is in progress. Does that help?
<jeanne> +1 for budget
Jeanne: Yes.
Judy: I want to ask people, I've heard "w3c" doesn't cover captions or interpreters. Not true. We do accommodate. Policies don't exist yet, but in progress.
Janina: What happened with Amazon is Peter jumped and offered. It was before there was any discussion.
Judy: That's different from WAI
refusing. We were eventually asked about transfering.
... The recent thing is a happy problem, the advanced timeline
for requesting real time captioning has gone from a few days to
a few weeks because of the demand for captioning is going
up.
... I don't know if the same is true for interpreters.
Janina: A category I don't know what we do with is the deaf/blind, initially deaf, and loses sight, and does not know braille.
Judy: There is a way of providing
that accommodation. Learned how to accommodate the entire
range.
... rehab agencies do not provide advanced literacy training.
Organizations can pay for a local interpreter.
... This is more involved than I thought. I appreciate the
views on this. Useful to have a follow-up to more easily
support the requests, or better to see the materials?
Chuck: Wait for materials.
<Zakim> jeanne, you wanted to say that we need ongoing interpreters so that people feel welcome
Tzviya: I and peers would like to see.... poorly documented for everyone. I don't think this belong in the process. I don't know who owns documentation.
Judy: Myself, Alex, and Ralph. We are working together.
Tzviya: I'd like to see a
document.
... Often when I sign up there's a q on accommodation needs. If
we don't have docs we should. If I need this for a meeting, it
should be included as documentation for chairs.
Judy: That's what is planned.
I've received an updated draft. I'll reply soon.
... It's for certain type of event. I'm going to get guidance
for all of them. I'm assuring the WAI groups, please ping me
and team contact. So nobody thinks that they are without the
means to provide an accommodation.
Brent: If EO had a participant join who is deaf, it would be an accommodation for captioning or real time captioning, that would be paid for by W3C for all the wg meetings?
Judy: It needs to not be an issue.
Brent: Right, I don't want to have to say "we have to figure this out". If we have a participant who needs and comes to all the meetings, we will assume that we will have a captioner?
Judy: We are the default payer.
...different people have provided interpreters. By default, WAI
will pay if there is not another payer for a meeting in a wai
group.
... One thing to keep in mind, captions may work for typing
what people are saying, but if someone is deaf, and and their
speech is not clear to some others clear... it's important to
figure out the right communication mode.
... Some people may not know ASL.
... I have a much better idea of what kinds of questions and
assumptions people might have had. Better documentation is
needed. I'll show drafts as they become available.
... Brent, what do you want to say to folk and what kind of
feedback are you getting?
Brent: The survey created by
Shadi (template) for us to use the videos. Nobody could get
access to that, we fixed that. We did a redirect and figured
out how to make public.
... We have 10 video scripts. The email says who stepped
forward and asked to review the scripts. I added that in there.
If there are others please let me know.
... I'll also send to the wai cc group, so it can be shared. We
need to stick to the deadlines. If someone needs additional
time we'll keep open if needed.
... We'll speak at AGWG on the 27th to talk about in detail
what's involved in the project.
... In the repository there is an about.me that describes what
we are looking for in the reviews.
... It's just a matter of people being aware that we want the
stakeholders involved. There's a small group that is creating
the scripts and doing initial editing and reviewing.
... When polished, we then bring to EO and get a thorough
review. We bring it to everyone at that same point, to get
early review.
Judy: Thanks for the update.
<brent> Batch 1 survey being discussed: https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/1/WCAGvideos_batch1thorough/
Judy: One thing I wonder. The
comments from chairs and facilitators would be high level on
approach, not on nitty gritty.
... I'm curious if others think if that's a good guess. Or do
you think that there are areas of the video that you want to
look at in detail.
... Are people planning on looking at these?
Brent: At the end of every
survey, we have a q for other comments. They can add any topic
at the end of the survey. We are getting a bit of feedback on
the scripts.
... We tend to see things like... "instead of using someone
with low vision, use someone from the cognitive group."
<George> In my todo queue
Judy: That's the level of reading
the room, to see if anybody has any general or specifics.
... We do find that these are good way to dive into it.
<brent> Kim has responded to survey already
Judy: Not enough time to go into details on rest of agenda. Any other topics?
This is scribe.perl Revision VERSION of 2020-12-31 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: Irssi_ISO8601_Log_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/Emerssive/Immersive/ Succeeded: s/the speaker is not/and their speech is not clear to some others/ Succeeded: s/not another payer/not another payer for a meeting in a wai group/ Default Present: George, joconnor, becky, brentb, stevelee, shawn, Kim_patch, Katie_Haritos-Shea, janina, ChrisLoiselle, Chuck, tzviya, MichaelC, jeanne, brent, Judy, Rachael, jamesn Present: George, joconnor, becky, brentb, stevelee, shawn, Kim_patch, Katie_Haritos-Shea, janina, ChrisLoiselle, Chuck, tzviya, MichaelC, jeanne, brent, Judy, Rachael, jamesn Found Scribe: Chuck Inferring ScribeNick: Chuck WARNING: No meeting chair found! You should specify the meeting chair like this: <dbooth> Chair: dbooth Found Date: 21 Apr 2021 People with action items: WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines. You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option. WARNING: IRC log location not specified! (You can ignore this warning if you do not want the generated minutes to contain a link to the original IRC log.)[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]