W3C

– DRAFT –
ARIA Authoring Practices Task Force

06 April 2021

Attendees

Present
CurtBellew, Jemma, MarkMcCarthy, Matt_King, sarah_higley
Regrets
carmacleod
Chair
Matt King
Scribe
jongund

Meeting minutes

MK: Let's get started

MK: Introducing James Scholes

JS: I am director of accessibility and working on test writing for aria-at project

MK: We need more discussion about the fan slider

MK: for the first, we have disclosure and checkboxes

<Jemma> https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/wiki/April-6%2C-2021-Agenda

MK: Updated the pages with the review requests

MK: No meeting next week

MK: I will take some time in the next week

<Jemma> git hub issue #1814, #1802, #1801

MK: I hope to finish my reviews before I leave

MM: I am at a conference this week, I can do next week

Siri: I can help

MK: You can use the time for this meeting next week

JK: I missed the last meeting about this topic

MK: We are going to do 1709 first

<Jemma> #1709 - code review by Sarah

MK: Sara said she could review, I just sent a request

MK: The documentation for the index does not seem to be in the wiki

MK: JG had some comments in the original pull request

<Jemma> https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/1709#issuecomment-814310037

MK: JG dig up information on the index and add it to the infrastructure wiki page

<Jemma> https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/wiki/APG-Infrastructure

JG: Let's leave 1607 there for now

MK: It would be helpful to get this soon

SH: I can look at it after the meeting

<Jemma> "Jump to" feature to apg

<Jemma> PR #1635

MK: The jump to index code, you were going to update the menu

MK: Add to example.js will get it on any example

JG: I will add it to examples.js, that touches less files

Slider

Sliders

MK: Thermostat/fan slider example

MK: 1755

<Jemma> https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/1755

MK: I would like to summarize and JS can correct me

MK: In the first iteration we had off. low, medium and high were coded as buttons

MK: JG said the labels were clickable, like on a button

MK: Similar to how labels work in HTML, and touch interfaces allow touch to activate

<Jemma> James Scholes comment - https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/1755#issuecomment-805166451

MK: But we maybe violating WCAG requirements

JS: WCAG is open to interpretation, basically our concern about using the labels for changing the value

JS: The other thing that happens, regardless the focus moves to the control if you click on a label

JS: HTML labels are one-to-one, and in this example there are four items that relate to a single component

JS: The labels are after, not before in the DOM

JS: There is an equity issue

SH: Why is difference between using HTML labels and these as labels, here is the same as HTML

JS: The issue I have, is SR fire focus, the slider receives focus, if I press enter on one of the labels, the slider already has focus, so the SR doesn't tell me it has focus

SH: Is that different than HTML

JS: In some cases the arrow is collapsed, so there is some reduction in the duplication

JS: The slider already has an accessible name and they are not the values

MK: The labels in the slider is they are identifying a value

MK: There is no state change value...

MK: Off, low, medium and high are labeling values, not the control

Siri: I can only change with the value with the mouse, not the keyboard

MK: A lot of people turn on or off clickable

MK: If you are using voice over on the mac, you may use touch

MK: The sighted SR user may see them and clide on them and expect to hear something useful

MK: it feels like there are several paths forward

MK: Maybe there are some SR expectation on value changes

MK: This is an anti-pattern, from an ARIA perspective, that it should be coded as a radio group

KS: Or a select box

JS: The point that type range with aria-value text

MK: You can use this example with SR

JN: They have fixed it in Safari/VO

JN: in order to resolve this just change the clickable area on the rail

SH: I think radio is a better choice

<siri> +1 James

JN: Itstill looks like a slider, not a radio

MK: Do designers, do slider with values, or is this something we should dicourage

JS: Sliders are for ranges

JS: For example a range of dates

MK: You can't do medium and half, is this something that we should not be an example

SH: Something with valuetext is good

MK: When they are numbers they are awful

JS: This is an opportunity not to demonstrate

MK: 1 hour 5 minutes, instead of 65 minutes

SH: I like the minutes and seconds

JS: Chapters ion a pod cast

MK: As we are providing guidance, some patterns we provide information about when to use slider versus, radio versus spin button

MK: The temperature use valuetext?

JG: Yes it does

MK: It just adds a word to the end

SH: Remove the fan and add a time

MK: So we have three slider examples, first is the simplest, color picker, no value text

ML: We have this one, role is on g element and it uses valuetext

MK: The multithumb has aria orientation

MK: If we a e looking at a video slider scrubber, four examples is overkill

JS: If you have volume and seek

MKL Change to video player control from thermostat

MK: I don't think the SVG aspect...

MK: Maybe change to volume and play position, we could get past this

MK: I am still wondering about what JN said earlier

MK: If we don't have off, low, meidum and high example, are we causing a problem that when people do this they won't have a model, or write something about not doing this

JS: I would go for the second option

SH: I like the advice box

MK: We should change one o the radios to something that looks like a sider, but use radio

JS: That sounds great

MK: When you have a limited number of predefined values, we should not hide them

JS: They are information, we give you a huge number of values, and information on min and max, in this example the labels are the values

JK: column bar and seek bar

JK: Muddy the water if something that looks like a slider, but is a radio button

JK: Maybe confusing to teach

JS: If people can choose between predefined values, slider is not a good choice

JS: radio is good for online surveys that are all over the web

JS: If the in between states do not apply it should be a radio button

JK: This is a slider example

JG: The proposal is to change example from thermostat to a volume, seek and a separate examplefor radio that looks like a slider, by modifying an existing example

SH: The example stars example with radio or slider

CB: That is a good example

JK: I want to make sure the example different

JN: I am on the que

JN: Can we increase the hit area for the thermostat for changing the value

MK: So if we are going to change we should include the change

JN: The hit area needs increasing

MK: Instead of having two sliders, why not just one

JG: In this example one slider has a continuousrange and the other descrete values

JG: regression test are often more code than the examples

SH: I can help with regression tests

SH: I have a code pen example

SH: There are images with half stars

<siri> Then it will become radio buttons

SH: I like the volume and seek control

JS: I am thinking have two example pages one for volume and seek

Siri: The radio for the stars will be confusing if you tab to it

JG: What is the visual accordance for sighted used for the rating examples

JG: What is the visual affordance?

MK: I like the example to differentiate function over form

Siri: How do you fill half a star with the mouse?

SH: That is a good question

MK: We are over and we have not arrived a solution

MK: We need to have an issue where we continue this conversation

JS: I can create the issue

Resolution: James Scholes will complie the slider ideas and disucssion details in the github issue.

Summary of resolutions

  1. James Scholes will complie the slider ideas and disucssion details in the github issue.
Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by scribe.perl version 127 (Wed Dec 30 17:39:58 2020 UTC).

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Maybe present: CB, JG, JK, JN, JS, KS, MK, ML, MM, SH, Siri