<scribe> scribe: sloandr

Communicating differences between "write markup" and "write code"

Daniel: reviewing policy for deciding when to use "write markup" and when to use "write code". Current approach is to use "markup" for HTML and WAI-ARIA, "code" for when additional web technologies are included

<Daniel> https://github.com/w3c/wai-curricula/pull/308/commits/d2a4f50d689663cff204e00536d5dec4facdbe22

Gerhard: easier to harmonise on one term, because code covers multiple scenarios

Carlos: no strong opinion, but agrees harmonising one term makes updating simpler

Shadi: queries whether we unify on "code" or "markup"?

Gerhard: depends on context

Carlos: Don't feel that many people will raise an issue with "write code" when they are writing markup, but feels there may be more of an issue when using "markup" when referring to a task that invovles scripting

<Daniel> https://github.com/w3c/wai-curricula/pull/308/commits/d2a4f50d689663cff204e00536d5dec4facdbe22

Shadi: feels that updates do now make the difference in when to use "code" and when to use "markup" clearer

Howard: changes are fine, likes when a mix of terms is used, can improve readability. Use of "markup" here does make sense.

Daniel: if we can agree the use of the two terms is now done consistently, should we keep this approach or go back to a harmonised approach?

Howard: Keep this approach

Dave: +1

Carlos: no strong approach, so fine with this approach

Gerhard: all changes in diff make sense, +1

Should we keep learning outcome "outline the benefits of using

<shadi> https://deploy-preview-308--wai-curricula.netlify.app/curricula/developer-modules/page-structure/

<shadi> [[outline the benefits of using HTML native elements for compatibility with assistive technologies and adaptive strategies]]

Daniel: proposal is to remove a learning outcome from Module 1 of the developer curriculum, as it is communicated at a higher level

Shadi: wondering if Module 1 is too early to be talking about the benefits of using HTML native elements, compared to what follows

Gerhard: feels it does need to be communicated as a learning outcome at some point where developers might be inclined to use custom components

Shadi: it's a learning outcome for Custom Widgets, and included in topics, so there's a strong focus in the curriculum. But should we be repeating this as a learning outcome for each module or use it only for relevant modules, to give it more emphasis

Howard: don't see a strong need to remove this outcome from earlier module

Carlos: leave it there as it's a core principle of accessible web development, one of the first messages to get through to students
... don't discuss custom components in class on page structure, but feel it's still important enough to communicate early in a learning process

Dave: would this learning outcome apply to the Structure module for a situation when a developer used a div with CSS instead of a heading element?

Shadi: there is some discussion in the module topic list on techniques for implementing heading structure, including when using ARIA might be necessary
... fine to keep the outcome, if others feel it should be there

Daniel: agreed to keep as is

Carlos: we are not prescribing the order of modules, and some people might use only a subset of modules, or teach modules in different order. So perhaps this means it should be present only in most relevant modules?

Daniel: this might be a good reason for moving the learning outcome to the forms module, as this is the first opportunity to spend significant time on the implications of non-native solutions

Shadi: don't want to put the learning outcome everywhere, if that means reducing emphasis of its importance in modules where it is a significant topic

Daniel: consensus—leave as is

FYIs: Approval to publish survey, next curricula development

Daniel: next round is a survey, asking EOWG for approval to publish, hoping that any comments are minor. Expect to open the survey next week, for two weeks. Be ready for email and invitation to respond
... Thinking about next curriculum, thinking it will be the Designers modules
... will be preparing some ideas for group to review

Shadi: was some discussion on relationship between Designers curriculum and Authors curriculum, and needs to address a non-technical audience, and which one comes next. Should be easier to move into Designers curriculum as we have been exploring relationship between Developers and Designers in our recent work
... does it make sense to the group to move to the Designer curriculum next?

Gerhard: Yes

Howard: Yes

Carlos: Yes

Dave: Yes