W3C

WoT & SDWIG join meeting

10 Dec 2020

Attendees

Present
kaz, Linda, Ted, Gobe, Bryon, Christopher, DavidS, AlexanderR, Franz, GregB, JaciK, Frederic, Jari, Jennifer, JohnH, Joost, Kathi, Kunihiko, Leif, MatthewP, MichaelJ, MichealM, Marie-Francoise, Paul, PeterR, RobS, RobA, Rodriguez, Scott, SteveL, Tomoaki, Trevor, ClemensPortele, Christine, Bart
Regrets
Jeremy, Bill
Chair
Linda, Michael
Scribe
Ted

Contents


<McCool> https://github.com/w3c/wot/issues/939

Linda welcomes attendees, introduces topic

MichaelM: geolocation is certainly metadata we may want to keep track of as part of WoT
... we are working on a discovery service and in the process of rechartering
... use case is you might want to find sensors in a given area. we want to try to align. we use geolocation API within browser
... it is not consistent with other geolocation done in the semantic web
... what I hope to do in this meeting is figure out how we are going to collaborate, establish goals and provide overview of our issues

Linda: sounds good

MichaelM: we use github and have been labeling issues related to geospatial
... discovery needs geospatial queries while retaining privacy. we need to decide how to encode metadata
... we want a defined vocabulary and consistent way to access location data and know a device's location
... we have a few different use cases documents and looking for where geolocation comes up. in smartcities, shipping...
... we are trying to track and determine requirements. we have been doing some experimental prototypes and how things might look like
... we want your input on that
... we are considering a best practices for spatial data in WoT
... in some cases the devices will not know their location and provide that data but we would want to be able to add as an annotation
... we will want to align with things like SSN accuracy
... we ideally would select instead of define a vocabulary. we lack geolocation experts and trying to recruit such expertise
... we are aiming for May for our final drafts before CR during the current charter
... we are expecting to perhaps issue an updated CR with privacy considerations
... one of the constraints is one shouldn't broadcast location metadata
... connecting to a directory service and authenticating prior to getting location data is one possibility
... we are looking at proposed extensions to DNS to include geospatial queries or we could possibly handle in our directory service
... we will need a standardized way to encode the data
... there has been some discussion in IETF groups and encouraging them not to provide location data directly in DNS
... instead provide a web service

<brinkwoman> https://w3c.github.io/wot-usecases/

Christine: IoT is mostly about connected sensors as I understand it
... I want to know what are the use cases for needing location data
... in particular I am interested in AR discovery, in your document it doesn't seem related to a virtual guide
... I want to be able to expose where there are AR experiences near a user. currently a challenge to query them

MichaelM: our discovery mechanism allows queries across various semantic information using SPARQL, XPATH...

Kaz: I have been working with Rob Smith on this use case. I want to include 'virtual' location

Christine: I know Rob and will follow up with him directly outside this meeting

RobS: happy to have a chat and let's take this offline

MichaelM: we are in discussion with the Linked Building Data Community Group
... we have various issues around tracking deliveries, traffic management
... this document needs some reorganization, it has had a number of individual contributors

RobA: some of the thinking in SOSA/SSN in describing observations does not include who is providing metadata
... that is more imporant in IoT, who is reporting
... a temperature sensor location makes a big difference but the sensor itself might not know that
... do you have a reference architecture?

MichaelM: SSN is on our minds. Thing Descriptions include a link description

<brinkwoman> https://www.w3.org/TR/wot-architecture/

MichaelM: there are indeed many ways you might get access to a thing. discovery is meant to help define how you get that metadata

<brinkwoman> https://w3c.github.io/wot-discovery/

MichaelM: it is a two phase process, meant to not leak any metadata but provide a URL
... URL as such needs to be opaque
... you might have P2P self describing device or arrive at it through a directory service
... you can't download the entire directory but query it. we have three query mechanisms, SPARQL the most powerful

RobA: how does someone know where the directory is?

MichaelM: we want to be able to include location as part of directory query
... what is the introduction process to find the directories?
... we do not yet have a way to find directories based on location which is why the DNS approach is being discussed
... as mentioned, metadata will be withheld until authenticated
... there may still be tracking concerns since you will be provided a fixed URL for a given location
... we are discussing hierarchical directories of directories on the web as a way to scale across a large area
... it is more a campus than country scale thing, for latter we feel DNS solution needed

RobA: I can see leveraging DNS as a starting point

MichaelM: we are designing an architecture to support future discovery mechanisms
... we have periodic plugfests where we try out various things
... we have played around with how to include geolocation in a thing description

<brinkwoman> https://github.com/w3c/wot-testing for plugfest examples

MichaelM: there is a simple geolocation ontology defined a long time ago on schema.org that defines terms we can use

<kaz> specifically Thing Description resources for the Plugfest during TPAC 2020

MichaelM: this is only good for static metadata, not properly handling moving devices
... we do not want to constantly update a Thing Description

RobA: that model of long/lat is flawed, not handling things like continental drift or delivery drones will be smacking into sides of buildings
... you will need a more extensive model

MichaelM: correct. we have looked at other variants, using a different structure including accuracy information
... when I look at web api for html, it includes heading and speed but lacks unit and accuracy information not even size/shape of the thing
... for dynamic location, if you have a geolocator service coming from GPS on device we are thinking of providing link to that property
... this handles dynamic, static and even if another device is providing location information

<McCool> https://github.com/w3c/wot-testing/tree/master/events/2020.09.Online/TDs/Intel

Matthew Purrs: DGGS gives you an implicit level of precision

scribe: better than long/lat schemas. we are exploring if this is a good fit

MichaelM: if there is something we could leverage that would be great
... we have different requirements for static, dynamic and discovery
... I want to discuss process on how we can work together in our remaining time more than specific solutions

<ghobona> Discrete Global Grid Systems (DGGS)

MichaelM: personally I want to see a joint task force and possibly work on a best practices document to address these concerns
... separately I am concerned about how ontologies and web apis often do not align

Linda: we should take advantage of the participants on the call and see if anyone wants to speak out, expressing their interest in chat or vocalize

<roba> I am working on projects looking to leverage SSN/SOSA with FIWARE/NGSI-LD - and hence on approaches to generate modular JSON-LD contexts to support this - so I would be interested in some aspects of this.

Steve: I am interested and have seen some odd use cases which can be helpful

<McCool> https://github.com/w3c/wot/issues/939

MichaelM: please comment on this issue

<RobSmith> I'm interested, as there is a significant overlap with WebVMT

MichaelM: a task force call could be monthly

Linda: we could use the SDWIG for some of this as a number of interested parties are there

<cperey> I am also interested, Linda. please include me on follow up

Linda: we would be happy to collaborate on best practices

George Percival expressed interest in chat. Ted Guild also interested

MichaelM: we need to collect ideas and references initially and figure out what to produce. I was thinking a best practices document
... it would be nice to align with our next round of spec publication toward the end of the year
... I'll setup a doodle poll

Kaz: please send me an email if you're interested

Summary of Action Items

Summary of Resolutions

[End of minutes]

Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl version (CVS log)
$Date: 2020/12/10 14:57:29 $