Personalization Task Force Teleconference

30 Nov 2020


becky, CharlesL, LisaSeemanKest, janina
Lisa, becky, lisaseemankest


<sharon> scribe: Lisa

Explainer red-lining

Distraction overlap with  prefers-reduced-motion media query - https://github.com/w3ctag/design-reviews/issues/476

<LisaSeemanKest> alice still has some issues with distraction and media quiry

<LisaSeemanKest> https://github.com/w3ctag/design-reviews/issues/476

<LisaSeemanKest> can't imagine why the advertiser or the site would be prepared to make it easier for all users to evade such an ad by annotating it, without some way to make up the implied loss of revenue to the site, or some stronger incentive to outweigh the revenue concern.

<LisaSeemanKest> In other words, unfortunately I think the distraction attribute is at risk of not being used on distracting ads in practice.

<LisaSeemanKest> Also, I mentioned the prefers-reduced-motion media query, rather than ARIA - did you have a chance to evaluate the overlap in user needs there?

<becky> scribe: becky

Lisa: need to clarify that the needs of some users are different from other users. Some are okay with noise and others are not. Marking up the content allows people to customize.
... education site may have items that will distract some people and need to be identified

Janina: I don't think there is much overlap with media queries - reduces motion is for people who are distracted specifically by motion; our use case goes further

Sharon: agree reduce motion media query is specifically for motion; I agree with Janina, there are other distractions that are not motion

Lisa: cross advertisements can be useful for some people (searching for screw driver and also get info about screws) but for other people it may be overwhelming noise or distracting
... for overly distracted people the advertisement or other distraction is going to prevent them from completing the action at all

Janina: distractions came about first in dept. stores - you can no longer negotiate a straight path; bump and buy strategy
... want to reply that many people are opposed to advertisements, they just don't want to be distracted by them when I am trying to accomplish a task

<LisaSeemanKest> scribe: lisa

<CharlesL> Alice's initial concern: distraction=sensory is a slight exception to this, but has strong overlap with the https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/CSS/@media/prefers-reduced-motion - could its intended uses be covered by that existing technology?

Janina: sites use algorithms to place ads, so it wouldn't be hard for sites to mark up; you may have a different pattern for shopping and need to accomplish task first

<LisaSeemanKest> scribe: lisaseemankest

charles: reduced motio is things moving aound, like flyouts

but that isnt all the cases

for example: related products etc

senspory is just one type

sharon: related suggestions in the way of a putuches is not a distraction , and not paying, so it is a good example

lisa: things that go ping

becky: subcribe notices

that block you

lisa: noise on social media?

janina: could we remove sensory?

janinacan you turn sounds off

lisa: i cant stand the pings but if turn off my phone noise becuse people need to talk to me

janina-that might be axilary sounds

charles: our examples are: senroy offer , stk market ticker, countdown time

becky: is that reduced motion

janina: we were not sure media quiries was happening

<becky> scribe: becky

Janina: should consider that there is some overlap with sensory distraction and media queries; but, media queries doesn't handle all of the events we have uncovered - for example audio

Charles: (some discussion of how media queries works);

Sharon: dev. uses the prefers reduced motion on the moving items, and that gets activated when user specifics reduced motion in browser settings

Charles: we are using that for "swoosh" motion, or not, on a website

Janina: I have an issue with sounds - there is no index of what sounds mean
... perhaps we can trim somethings down in the spec that media queries will in fact cover
... I can take a stab at explaining this on the list

Sharon: probably a good idea to have an example that goes beyond just motion

Janina: example of big sur (latest Mac OS) making sounds for each notification

Lisa: is there a guideline for OS updates, something that says to keep previous user preferences

Janina: generally OS updates keep settings

<LisaSeemanKest> i can update https://github.com/w3c/personalization-semantics/wiki/actions

Charles: our list of values under distraction - there are 4 values: sensory, overlay, offer, messages. Shouldn't audio be one of the values?
... two obvious senses are vision and auditory, but what about tactile. Do we need to expand the values for distraction to be be more specific rather than just general "sensory"

Janina: agree we may want to consider

becky: concerned with overload of values

Janina: could solve some of this by publishing an index of these sensory inputs, sound, tactile, etc

Sharon: so because of media query reduced motion do we no longer need to specify motion?

Janina: can thank Alice and let her know we are discussing further

Charles: so need to work through this section and also make reference to media query prefers reduced motion

Sharon: I will create an issue for this

Explainer red-lining

Janina: red-lining hasn't happened, don't believe that we need it for CR; I will get to it

Lisa: it it isn't req. for CR then we should change the status as an ongoing editing item

Roy: we can keep the explainer in editor draft space; we should update the explainer to make sure it addresses the first content module thoroughly
... will will update the explainer when we get ready to publish additional modules
... so okay to keep in working draft mode

Lisa: given that should we merge in my changes to the explainer?
... I will make a pull request for my changes

Janina: believe we still need to work a bit on the intro.

Bliss symbol reference in editors note - https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-personalization-tf/2020Nov/0011.html

Roy: spoke with w3c tech directory, we can reference a PDF in the content module, but there are still concerns from legal about patent policy; I will coordinate with legal staff to draft email about patent policy about bliss symbol reference.

Summary of Action Items

Summary of Resolutions

[End of minutes]

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Present: becky CharlesL LisaSeemanKest janina
Found Scribe: Lisa
Found Scribe: becky
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Found Scribe: lisa
Found Scribe: lisaseemankest
Inferring ScribeNick: LisaSeemanKest
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Scribes: Lisa, becky, lisaseemankest
ScribeNicks: becky, LisaSeemanKest
Found Date: 30 Nov 2020
People with action items: 

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