<Sharron> Scribe: Sharron
<shawn> trackbot, start meeting
<trackbot> Meeting: Accessibility Education and Outreach Working Group (EOWG) Teleconference
<trackbot> Date: 20 November 2020
<brentb> Chair: Brent
Shawn: We had discussed this in October and made a few changes.
<shawn> https://github.com/w3c/wai-media-guide/pull/127
Shawn: added "including text
dispalyed in the video" to a few places. If you agree, please
+1 on GitHub
... any questions about that?
... issue #127
<MarkPalmer> +1
<Laura> +1 same for me in github
<shawn> Github: https://github.com/w3c/wai-media-guide/pull/127
<brentb> https://github.com/w3c/wai-media-guide/pull/126
Shawn: On issue #126...In 30 Oct
meeting, we said there were a few things that people really
missed. I had added them to the intro but y'all said they got
lost. You suggested we highlight common mistakes and put it
higher.
... this page, including the bullet points, covers that
issue.Please take a minute to read through those.
... any comments?
<shawn> if agree, +1 to https://github.com/w3c/wai-media-guide/pull/127
RESOLUTION: to accept changes to GitHub #126 and #127
Shawn: Previous version mentioned
CART quite a bit. Terminology section was not meant to be
comprehensive but geared to teh content of this page. Occured
to me to put the explanation within in the text rather than in
a separate terminology section, keeping it simple.
... here is the diff version
... ended up changing CART to captioning in several places
since people more commonly understand that term.
Estella: You changed CART into captions but CART is only for live captioning so while we are talking of live presentations, does it change the context? For me it was not to remove CART but to broaden the understanding. This may cause more confusion.
Sharron +1 to Estella
Estella: Captions and subtitles
are synonymous so not an issue.
... in Spanish
... The issue is not between remote captioning. It is the
difference between live captioning and pre-recorded
captions.
Shaen: How does that impact this resource?
Estella: It is becasue previously we mentioned only CART, a term used for live subtitling mostly in the US.
Shadi: The latest iteration talks about captioning generally and it feels like it does address your concern so I am not sure what is the problem.
Estells: Previously it was just about CART. My point was not to remove it entirely only to make the distinction that there are two kinds of captions, live and pre-recorded.
Shawn: We do say that live captioning is also called CART
Estella: That's OK.
Shawn: Had split things into several bullets but had some objections, will put it back how it was.
Shadi: May want to rephrase and change the order of the links so we don't send people off site
<shawn> https://github.com/w3c/wai-presentations2all/issues/26
Shawn: Take a minute to read what we have now.
<brentb> Scribe: Brent
<brentb> Shadi: Interpreters is a much broader term.
<brentb> ... language interpretations is a bit more defined.
<brentb> Shawn: Now that I understand Estella's comment, I feel I can address.
<brentb> Shawn: I will update "interpreter" comments. Then Estella please look at terminology issue to approve.
<shawn> https://github.com/w3c/wai-presentations2all/wiki/Criteria-for-what-to-include
<brentb> Shawn: In the last discussion we talked about what was out of scope... Making the handout files themselves accessible, guidance on physical facility. We want the resource to be striaght forward and simple. Need to be careful not to add too much guidance so that the resource does not start to overwhelm.
<brentb> Shawn: First question is, do we want a link to a PDF on guidance for writing "easy to read materials."
<brentb> Estella: The checklist that I added to GitHub is not so lengthy. It is a checklist. Maybe a checklist would be easier.
<brentb> Shawn: On the checklist, let's look at how many of the items in the checklist are relative to presentations.
<brentb> Estella: I was not sure how broad the scope of the resource was supposed to be.
<brentb> Shawn: [Asking group] Should we link to these resource or not?
<brentb> Shadi: One issue is that there are so many resources. If we link to some it can be perceived that we are endorsing them and not others. Also, there is not an established way in which we select them.
<brentb> ... Also, these are about "easy to read," there is also the issue of easy to hear, listen to.
<brentb> ... "Easy to read" by itself does not seem to cover everything. Need more on writing and speaking, etc.
<brentb> Estella: I shared the link because I saw somewhere in the resource it said "Use an easy to read font face," and I felt that was not enough. In agreement with Shadi.
<JasonMcKee> I have to jump in a meeting thank you everyone and have a great weekend!
<brentb> Shawn: There may be some specific resources that we do want to add.
<brentb> Shadi: Many resoruces on "easy to read" usually focus on other things like length of content, reading level, etc. Not so much what we are talking about here.
<shadi> https://www.w3.org/TR/coga-usable/#objective-3-use-clear-and-understandable-content-0
<brentb> Shawn: There are some key points that we should address. I will skim through and see what points we would like to add. Not to add links to resources, but adding key points in.
<shawn> https://github.com/w3c/wai-presentations2all/issues/24
<brentb> Shawn: Any comments on this addition?
<brentb> Estella: So many times in live presentations there is a lot of background noise. Need some suggestion to remind people to try and minimize the background noise.
<brentb> Shadi: I agree. There are several places where this content can be added, mentioned.
<brentb> ... Also thinking that "avoid multiple people speaking at the same time."
<brentb> ... Agree that we shuold comment about background noise.
<brentb> ... Maybe not in just one place but multiple.
<brentb> Shawn: The focus is currently on "in person" and not so much "remote."
<brentb> ... What do we want to add for "remote" issues? Please consider and then add them to GitHub issue #13.
<brentb> Shawn: Related to that is the Title issue, #25.
<shawn> tit https://github.com/w3c/wai-presentations2all/issues/25
<brentb> Shawn: Right now the title is "How to Make Your Presentations Accessible to All." The summary says ... prestentations, talks, meetings, and training...
<brentb> ... If we expand the scope, how do we make the title clear?
<brentb> Estella: When I think about a presentation, I think speaker creating and presenting. The title seems to not cover what the resource is about.
<brentb> Shawn: I agree, not sure what recommendation to make for different title.
<brentb> ... Changing it to cover everything would make it too long. Maybe we need a Main Title and Sub Title.
<shadi> ITU
<brentb> Estella: Some organizations have resources on "How to Make your Meeting Accessible." Do we want to differentiate for them.
<brentb> Shadi: This resource originated from the idea about providing content on delivering an accessible presentation.
<brentb> ... Then it grew into more topics of delivering accessible presentations.
<brentb> ... I like the idea of subtitle. But it is really focused on "presentations." If we expand beyond that it will really need to be broadened. Then maybe it does not stay under Teach & Advocate.
<brentb> Shawn: Okay, wanted to discuss and share ideas before we start working on the details here. Is this resonating with you Estella?
<brentb> Estella: Yes, I understand it better now. For me some of the issue is if the audience is someone brand new to this or people who know about accessibility already.
<shadi> +1 to Estella
<brentb> Shadi: 1) I agree there is a gap for "remote". 2) There is demand for this resouces addressing things broader than just presentations (could need another resource or change scope of this resource). 3) Summary needs to be more clear what the resource will support/offer guidance of.
<shawn> [ saz ... add to summary - this resource was designed to go along with other WAI resources ]
<brentb> ... Maybe the purpose of the resource needs to be much more explicit.
<brentb> Shawn: Okay, I think I have some good feedback to implement some changes.
<brentb> Shawn: If there are some changes we all agree on, I will get those done and published. Others I will work on and check back with Planning team and group.
<shawn> existing resource https://www.w3.org/WAI/media/av/
<shawn> early rough draft https://deploy-preview-143--wai-media-guide.netlify.app/media/av/quicktips/
<brentb> Shawn: Based on meeting in October it was suggested that we make a "Quick Tips" page for media. I got a start on it and am now looking for initial quick reactions.
<shawn> github issues with questions https://github.com/w3c/wai-media-guide/pull/143
<estella> +1 to quick tips
<MarkPalmer> +1 to quick tips
<brentb> Laura: I like the Tips page. I think it is helpful. Good amount of information and size of page.
<brentb> Mark: Agree the page length is right. I like the concept that is covered.
<brentb> Estella: I agree with Laura and Mark. I would structure it in a logical order. Start with Audio and Video, then on to the rest. More of a positioning issue. Content is good.
<brentb> Shawn: Great question. I went back and forth on the order of this draft page. In the existing resource we discussed the order in which content is presented. Planning / Content / Media Player / Description / Caption ...
<brentb> ... In the Quick Tips I had in mind TPAC and all of the videos that people were making for the W3C website in preparation for the meeting. That was one of my use cases that I had in mind.
<brentb> ... We tell people, "make your video accessible," and this would be the resource we point them to.
<brentb> ... So on this tips page, should we follow the structure of the resource, or go with what we believe is the most important order.
<shawn> brent: question is do we anticiapte people would see the quicktips as part of this resource. Or do we see that we would point people to the quicktips -- then, do in order of importance. though, if see it as another page in the resoources, then follow order in resource.
<brentb> Shawn: GREAT INPUT BRENT!!! I see it could be a landing page. and then follow up with more of the resource.
<brentb> Shadi: Big +1 to having quick tips.
<brentb> ... Big -1 to having it in a different order than the rest of the resource.
<shadi> https://www.w3.org/WAI/media/av/#how-to-make-audio-and-video-accessible
<brentb> Shadi: I believe this quick tips page should/would have links to other pages on how to do it. I think some if it is repeating what is on the front page.
<shadi> https://www.w3.org/WAI/tutorials/forms/
<brentb> ... This would align to the approach that we have implemented in the tutorials (example of Forms Tutorial).
<brentb> ... I feel strongly that we should not have a separate page because it could be redundent. Also for SEO it would be nice to have it on the front/opening page.
<brentb> ... Some of the content could be "made/written more actionable."
<brentb> ... Would help if you can send people just one page.
<brentb> Laura: I do agree with Shadi in part. It would be good to have it on one page. Take the content that would be in Quick Tips and putting it right in the opening page near the top.
<estella> +1 to one page
<brentb> Shawn: Difference would be that the opening page would be lengthened.
<brentb> Mark: I agree that the opening page may be too long once tips content is added. "Rob Peter to pay Paul sort of thing"
<brentb> Estella: I agree with having just one page.
<brentb> ... Could add expand/collapse to try and shorten the page and open what they are interested. To ease navigation.
<brentb> Shadi: I like the idea of expand/collapse. The opening page already has a lot. I worry that the Tips would only be more of a summary of what is already on the opening page.
<brentb> Shawn: I am leaning towards leaving this idea open, but not prioritizing it at the moment. I have captured all ideas. I will update the issue and point to minutes.
<brentb> ... Please check the issue and the minutes to be sure you ideas are captured accurately so that when we pick this up again we can move forward.
<brentb> Shawn: I will go through the discussion and make a lot of these changes. Publish the content that we have agreement on and keep working on some of the other content to work it out.
<brentb> Shawn: We will be promoting the W3C EdX Intro to Accessibility course.
<brentb> ... We will be making some edits to it in 2021.
<brentb> Shawn: There are a lot of student with some free time because of social distancing. So think it would be good if we could promote the course short term so that we can boost enrollment.
<brentb> ... If you have thoughts on how to market and do outreach that would be great.
<brentb> Laura: The LOC has an outreach and education group. I can reach out to that team and have them help market.
<brentb> Shawn: I will be creating a new page and will send that out to the group so it can be used with messaging.
<brentb> ... There is a video that describes the course. There are also two other videos from the content that I can add to the page as well.
<brentb> Thanks everyone for attending.
<shawn> tackbot, end meeting
<shawn> trackbot, end meeting