<jamesn> agendabot, find agenda
<agendabot> jamesn, OK. This may take a minute...
<agendabot> clear agenda
<jcraig> scribe: jcraig
jamesn: dropped first two items
Custom Actions part 2 for two weeks from today
any other proposals?
agreed, custom actions
jamesn: US thanksgiving next week... Also no meetings the last two Thursdays in December
happy holidays
Matt_King: re: used of the word "recommended" for checked
I'm happy to change the word "recommended" but want to question why we'd change it. The objections aren't resonating with me...
Sarah H had done some research re: aria-checked... Users thought that meant, could use spacebar without shift key.
that interaction more associated with checkboxes than select
sina: can we replace "recommended" with "preferable" or "preferred"
to keep the prose recommendation, but removes the RFC-like language
<carmacleod> original words: "because it is common for authors to use selection in single-select list boxes and check marks in multi-select list boxes."
Matt_King: I will revert back to that wording
jamesn and sina: +1
carmacleod: remember treeitem as well as option
<carmacleod> https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/1340
jamesn: see James Teh's comment
that it's not "common"
... maybe "relatively common"
Matt_King: "sometimes common" ;-)
would like to see HTML <select> implementations revised this way too
sina: "rule of three" here still stands
shouldn't do this unless these three things are true... if you want to use both checked and selected
<jamesn> <li>The meaning and purpose of <sref>aria-selected</sref> is different from the meaning and purpose of <sref>aria-checked</sref> in the user interface.</li>
<jamesn> <li>The user interface makes the meaning and purpose of each state apparent.</li>
<jamesn> <li>The user interface provides a separate method for controlling each state.</li>
Matt_King: yes, that is still in the PR
carmacleod: mentioned minor editorial issues in reply to Matt's question about outstanding changes
jamesn: brought back on agenda. pending for a review... requested review from Matt during a previous meeting.
need advice as which way to go
<carmacleod> https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/1335
<carmacleod> https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/771
<carmacleod> scribe: carmacleod
pkra: Do we need a separate meeting for this, or a Deep Dive, maybe?
jamesn: Go ahead
pkra: This is the last Braille issue, would like to finish this up
jcraig: Summary? Are you asking for keyup/down on Braille keys?
sina: If translation tables are
turned on, eg. Nemeth enteres into raw braille field, want it
to show up as integral symbol, not as ?
... Screen reader does not run through translation table
... It's very nice - you don't have to memorize esoteric key
strokes just to enter raw braille
jcraig: Ok, so no braille commands
sina: right
jcraig: would sighted user see dots?
sina: no, sighted user would probably see integral sign on screen
jcraig: ok, so you have a nemeth editor, and you want the editor to visibly display nemeth math symbols
sina: pearson already has this
working
... set translation table to "computer braille raw"
jcraig: how are you translating this back to the user
sina: the editor has already handled this
jcraig: is it self-voicing?
sina: kind of, but only when it
needs to be
... just let the student type in the raw braille
jcraig: blind speech + braille users can hear the character and have the braille output
sina: we have aria-braillelabel for the math speech, and raw braille for the braille output - it's a very inclusive experience
jcraig: can you use the same input field as the output
pkra: I have a suggestion in the interest of time - can we move this to a deep dive, and then we can bring in Arnaut and other braille screen reader users
jcraig: I see some demos, but
would be nice to have a reduced test case of how you would
expect this to work.
... it would be easier to understand some of the magic if there
was a mini test case instead of a polished demo
sina: I think if we don't talk about the math, because it can be used for other things, and for the aria perspective, we just need something for raw braille
jcraig: untranslated in, nemeth braille out, might require more
sina: that's what aria-braillelabel is for - it takes unicode braille (as long as there's no other characters)
jcraig: so as long as you are putting raw braille in there, it's not going to translate
sina: correct
<pkra> https://sinabahram.github.io/aria-playground/BrailleInput.html
pkra: Sina, the test case you built several years ago... is that still live?
jcraig: let's set up Dec 10 for a deep dive into this
sina: if we get this done, it's a really big deal - it makes braille math on the web a real thing
<CurtBellew> I've got to drop off. Something work related has become urgent
jamesn: move https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/940
... https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/975
- seems related to "required owned elements" issues
... https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/976
- it does seem contradictory
james: aria-atomic is not required, so it's just the default value, with is false
jamesn: if the value is not true or false, then the handling author errors section does come into play
mck: what did we do with other boolean values that are undefined or not present?
jamesn: treat as false
<jamesn> When exposing as a platform API Boolean state:
<jamesn> For values of "" (empty string), "undefined" or no attribute present:
<jamesn> - Follow the guidance in the Fallback values for missing required attributes table below, if applicable.
<jamesn> - Otherwise, treat as false.
<jamesn> Treat any other value as true.
sina: any other value, i.e. aria-atomic="foo" would map to true - other languages do this
jamesn: ok, keep this in 1.3
This is scribe.perl Revision of Date Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: Irssi_ISO8601_Log_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/all?// Succeeded: s/all?// Present: carmacleod jamesn pkra MarkMccarthy StefanS harris Matt_King jcraig CurtBellew Sina Regrets: SarahHigley JonGunderson Found Scribe: jcraig Inferring ScribeNick: jcraig Found Scribe: carmacleod Inferring ScribeNick: carmacleod Scribes: jcraig, carmacleod ScribeNicks: jcraig, carmacleod Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-aria/2020Nov/0021.html WARNING: No date found! Assuming today. (Hint: Specify the W3C IRC log URL, and the date will be determined from that.) Or specify the date like this: <dbooth> Date: 12 Sep 2002 People with action items: WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines. You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option. WARNING: IRC log location not specified! (You can ignore this warning if you do not want the generated minutes to contain a link to the original IRC log.)[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]