<Jemma> https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/wiki/September-15%2C-2020-Agenda

<Jemma> regret+ sarah

Site navigation systems (menus) plan

<scribe> scribe: carmacleod

TPAC joint meeting to discuss APG redesign project

<Jemma> suggested meeting time is Thursday October 15 from 10:00 AM to 11:45 AM US Central

Proposed joint meeting with Education and Outreach group

mck: have had conversations with Sharron Rush, Shawn Henry, Hidde, who are doing work to simplify WCAG Techniques documents
... some of their goals align with (or directly overlap) with APG goals
... we have often talked about getting APG out of the w3c TR published note
... my long term goal is to make APG a part of the wai initiatives web site, where it can be continuously updated, doesn't have to be versioned, etc
... so it would just be a single copy on w3c.org
... can get rid of some of the duplicity and confusion around multiple documents
... maybe merge WAI Tutorials and APG so they are one
... maybe merge ARIA in HTML doc as well
... this would mean we would expand our scope so that there's some sort of collaboration between groups
... most logical place for this work is Education and Outreach group

Jemma: 2 questions. 1. I see the benefit. Question is, without versioning, how do we know which one is usable?

mck: the content itself would say what is supported and when - forgot to say this would integrate ARIA-AT support tables as well

Jemma: Q2: What do we need to discuss at the meeting to accomplish this goal?

mck: first, need to set up organizationally - do we need a joint task force? community group?
... definitely want to invite broader participation
... once we have alignment on goals, organizational structure, timelines, then we can bring in people to help (possibly on contract)
... anybody have any concerns about this direction?

jongund: my only concern is workflow and processes... we already have kind of a complicated workflow. How will examples be developed, tested, etc
... what would be the skill level to actually contribute examples?

mck: we got some negative feedback at TPAC last year concerning code quality
... want to make sure that we are doing everything we can to enable people across the community to contribute
... as we discuss this, need to figure out how to address those concerns
... maybe develop a culture of coaching and guidance and mentoring, so we can bring in more people to be high-value contributors

Jemma: I'm optimistic, and like the idea of having more voices, more opinions to work on this

jamesn: my concern is that our workflow is to provide examples of new ARIA features, but it may not be supported yet, or there may be a better way to do something in HTML
... so we may not be giving the best advice all the time

mck: our priority would have to be to still support the ARIA spec

jamesn: that might be a conflict
... for example, if we bring in ARIA in HTML, then "use HTML whenever possible" would be the priority

mck: raised some very good points, we need to discuss this at the TPAC meeting

Site navigation systems (menus) plan

https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/1526

jongund: do we really want a tree pattern in here?

mck: we already have a treeview navigation example - I think it's a valid pattern, particularly for certain kinds of applications
... like for navigating a mail application

jongund: is this the treegrid example?

<Jemma> https://w3c.github.io/aria-practices/examples/treeview/treeview-2/treeview-2a.html

mck: no, that one isn't really a navigation - it's just an inbox

<Jemma> https://w3c.github.io/aria-practices/examples/disclosure/disclosure-navigation.html

mck: proposal in 1526 is to take the treeview navigation example an make it have the same content as the Mythical University disclosure menu example.

carmacleod: Might want to have a vertical disclosure navigation example

mck: yes, one of the things we want is more examples

jongund: maybe we should make the examples look the same, so that people don't equate the ARIA markup with the look

mck: the look should give an idea of what the behavior will be

jongund: there's a lot of detail. the visual affordances are important, to help keyboard users understand what the behavior will be

mck: we will be doing a study about which visual affordances help users understand when to use arrow keys

jongund: I'd like to see something like this in our examples

mck: maybe we should break 1526 up a bit, because there are some coding pieces, some design pieces, and some documentation pieces
... might want separate branches?

jongund: what is our timeline? when do we go to CR?

jamesn: we're done with 1.2, just waiting for Michael to do the bit that he needs to do, then we can release it

mck: so the net is that we do have a little bit of time to work on this before the ARIA spec goes to REC, so I'd love to get this in before then

jongund: I'll make a branch and start working on it.
... computed and declared treeview - which one?

mck: computed
... thank-you, Jon

Infrastructure changes

<Jemma> https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/wiki/How-to-add-the-Open-In-Codepen-button-to-an-example-page

mck: CodePen code has been merged. I added doc to the wiki describing how to add the Open In Codepen button to an example page

<Jemma> https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/projects/31

mck: we can add this code to the examples

<Jemma> https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/wiki/How-to-add-the-Open-In-Codepen-button-to-an-example-page

mck: Valerie put together some examples that use the CodePen button. Would like to get the rest done before 1.2
... The CodePen button is Valerie's project, but she won't make changes to PRs that are in flight

<Jemma> + mark

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